Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Simply because when I started reading the Protestant kjv of the Bible, it changed my life.
And, when someone suggested to me that I read a different version, and I did, that change started to go downhill; but when I returned to the kjv, my Christian walk began to again look upwards and started shining brighter again.
Because it is done everyday worldwide that makes it right? And beating a child is not discipline, it's child abuse. As is beating a convicted prisoner because they might not like what you said. There are other ways of correcting a situation without the physical abuse.
My generation grew up with paddlings at school and at home, nobody is harmed by it. Even the generation before me was the same way. We were far more respectful to parents and teachers. Now the kids are very disrespectful at school because I know quite a few school administrators and teachers that all say the same things. My sister in law was hit in the face my a student, dont you think if that child had been properly disciplined at home he wouldn't have done such a thing?
This new generation is full of wrong thinking, lack of discipline is morally wrong, even the bible says that. If you love a child then you will discipline him or her, if you hate the child then just do nothing.
Sounds like you are a snowflake just like this new generation. Our society is becoming very ridiculous with this cancle culture mentality, forget about what God has said is the way it is today.
I got popped 9 times a day by a man that everyone dreaded, and everytime he popped I apologized, smiled and said thanks.
I would take my pops amongst other people and they always cried. By law he could only pop me 9 times a day.
I suppose I loved that man right up there with my father, I went to visit him many times after he retired. He was a rate individual, I loved him, and he loved me even though he busted my but everyday lol.
Them were the days, people had respect because might was the authority where you just dont say or do anything you want because men would put they hands on you, heck my dad whipped every kid in the neighborhood 10 times at least, but they all loved my dad
I got popped 9 times a day by a man that everyone dreaded, and everytime he popped I apologized, smiled and said thanks.
I would take my pops amongst other people and they always cried. By law he could only pop me 9 times a day.
I suppose I loved that man right up there with my father, I went to visit him many times after he retired. He was a rate individual, I loved him, and he loved me even though he busted my but everyday lol.
Them were the days, people had respect because might was the authority where you just dont say or do anything you want because men would put they hands on you, heck my dad whipped every kid in the neighborhood 10 times at least, but they all loved my dad
And today they would throw him in jail and make him out as being terrible, terrible person for doing such. Society today sucks.
Because it is done everyday worldwide that makes it right? And beating a child is not discipline, it's child abuse. As is beating a convicted prisoner because they might not like what you said. There are other ways of correcting a situation without the physical abuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyKurreto
My generation grew up with paddlings at school and at home, nobody is harmed by it. Even the generation before me was the same way. We were far more respectful to parents and teachers. Now the kids are very disrespectful at school because I know quite a few school administrators and teachers that all say the same things. My sister in law was hit in the face my a student, dont you think if that child had been properly disciplined at home he wouldn't have done such a thing?
This new generation is full of wrong thinking, lack of discipline is morally wrong, even the bible says that. If you love a child then you will discipline him or her, if you hate the child then just do nothing.
Sounds like you are a snowflake just like this new generation. Our society is becoming very ridiculous with this cancle culture mentality, forget about what God has said is the way it is today.
I grew up in that generation as well. Respect didn't come from a paddle, rather by giving and getting respect. It sounds like you were a bully, who had no respect for himself or his parents. But I suppose, some of you needed a can of whoop-ass to straighten you out? It's the only way you would listen or learn.
Often times, parents use the school system, teachers as Surrogate parents - because they have no time for their children - it's not always a priority for them. In other words, don't put all the blame on the children. And take responsibility for your own thoughts, deeds, and actions. I never had to spake my children, nor was I beaten by my parents. I suppose you would also whoop a child for being autistic as well?
Simply because when I started reading the Protestant kjv of the Bible, it changed my life.
And, when someone suggested to me that I read a different version, and I did, that change started to go downhill; but when I returned to the kjv, my Christian walk began to again look upwards and started shining brighter again.
So yes, subjectively.
OK I can accept what you are saying in that it works for you. I simply wonder though, the KJV is so far removed from the original manuscripts, or what is left of them, And amount to a translation of a translation of a translation along with a political agenda...That is my take
Consider this
Old testament as far as we can tell, was written almost entirely in Hebrew, although there are a few Aramaic references. The stories, prior to being recorded, possibly on order from David, were told orally through the tribes. The earliest translation, the Septuagint, was written in Greek.
All New Testament books were written in Greek, a language that neither Jesus nor his apostles spoke. But it was notable because Hellenistic Jews often wrote things, while there was a higher amount of illiteracy amongst Jewish Laborers and commoners. SO Jesus likely himself did not write, and did not order his followers to "hand out these leaflets to each town" but rather to preach an oral lesson as taught to them.....
Paul was literate, but again, was writing in Hellenistic Greek, and the style of writing of the later epistles, such as James, were likely not from eyewitnesses but reflected views as commonly written (style and manor) of Hellenistic Jews
SO therein, right there is the first early Greek translation.
NOW I own a very old, rare, and illustrated version of the Latin Vulgate, which was translated both from Hebrew and Greek in the 2nd century . It is of itself a work of art. I am told that it was once used as an altar Bible somewhere in the late 1800s , and I know that while it was gifted to me, it carried a very high price tag.
Moving on, the King James Version was more successful than earlier English attempts, but the issue many have was the political maneuvering behind making the Bible look like it fit the form of the Church of England, as well as the fact that it was translated from Greek ,Hebrew Aramaic and Latin, Latin not being in use until the 2nd or 3rd century. I think that in such translation, much can be lost (like the existence of unicorns?) and perhaps the accuracy of the translation does not reflect the full intended style and message that one who is fluent in ancient languages might find.
Which sadly, drops me out at this point.
I guess the important thing though is that you have identified that something has worked well for you. No one can question that, or take that from you.
I asked only because I wondered if you had some reason for favoring the KJV and thanks for answering
I have always had the question though, and Mystic and others have discussed it I think herein, and that is at what point did the bible stop being Scripture and somehow become the Word of God ?
I think that in early Christian times, for example, there were likely Many versions of the Gospel (Jesus' teachings and messages) floating around unwritten. people had to get together and compare what they saw nd heard when they met him. And keep in mind, he was not even significant enough at the time, according to the stories, for Rome to even have him on the Radar; Judas had to point him out in the crowd. And this was BEFORE any written gospel account, like Mark or Luke. John even came much later. While I disagree with everything about Paul, his writings (letters) were used as guides by local congregations, and were seen not so much as scripture but as "good advice" as to how to formulate a community of followers and faith therein. When the canon was formed, it served as a reference for early Christian churches. That was all, a reference. It was not, and was not intended to be , the "Word of God"
It was not until after canonization and even took into the 5th century For all the various churches to agree on the canonization of the Bible and all to accept it as scripture.
But at some point, maybe in the reformation, or maybe in the Campbell/restoration movement, or maybe the Puritans, somehow the Bible stopped being scripture and started being "The Word of God" Interesting to explore how and when that happened.
OK I can accept what you are saying in that it works for you. I simply wonder though, the KJV is so far removed from the original manuscripts, or what is left of them, And amount to a translation of a translation of a translation along with a political agenda...That is my take
Consider this
Old testament as far as we can tell, was written almost entirely in Hebrew, although there are a few Aramaic references. The stories, prior to being recorded, possibly on order from David, were told orally through the tribes. The earliest translation, the Septuagint, was written in Greek.
All New Testament books were written in Greek, a language that neither Jesus nor his apostles spoke. But it was notable because Hellenistic Jews often wrote things, while there was a higher amount of illiteracy amongst Jewish Laborers and commoners. SO Jesus likely himself did not write, and did not order his followers to "hand out these leaflets to each town" but rather to preach an oral lesson as taught to them.....
Paul was literate, but again, was writing in Hellenistic Greek, and the style of writing of the later epistles, such as James, were likely not from eyewitnesses but reflected views as commonly written (style and manor) of Hellenistic Jews
SO therein, right there is the first early Greek translation.
NOW I own a very old, rare, and illustrated version of the Latin Vulgate, which was translated both from Hebrew and Greek in the 2nd century . It is of itself a work of art. I am told that it was once used as an altar Bible somewhere in the late 1800s , and I know that while it was gifted to me, it carried a very high price tag.
Moving on, the King James Version was more successful than earlier English attempts, but the issue many have was the political maneuvering behind making the Bible look like it fit the form of the Church of England, as well as the fact that it was translated from Greek ,Hebrew Aramaic and Latin, Latin not being in use until the 2nd or 3rd century. I think that in such translation, much can be lost (like the existence of unicorns?) and perhaps the accuracy of the translation does not reflect the full intended style and message that one who is fluent in ancient languages might find.
Which sadly, drops me out at this point.
I guess the important thing though is that you have identified that something has worked well for you. No one can question that, or take that from you.
I asked only because I wondered if you had some reason for favoring the KJV and thanks for answering
I have always had the question though, and Mystic and others have discussed it I think herein, and that is at what point did the bible stop being Scripture and somehow become the Word of God ?
I think that in early Christian times, for example, there were likely Many versions of the Gospel (Jesus' teachings and messages) floating around unwritten. people had to get together and compare what they saw nd heard when they met him. And keep in mind, he was not even significant enough at the time, according to the stories, for Rome to even have him on the Radar; Judas had to point him out in the crowd. And this was BEFORE any written gospel account, like Mark or Luke. John even came much later. While I disagree with everything about Paul, his writings (letters) were used as guides by local congregations, and were seen not so much as scripture but as "good advice" as to how to formulate a community of followers and faith therein. When the canon was formed, it served as a reference for early Christian churches. That was all, a reference. It was not, and was not intended to be , the "Word of God"
It was not until after canonization and even took into the 5th century For all the various churches to agree on the canonization of the Bible and all to accept it as scripture.
But at some point, maybe in the reformation, or maybe in the Campbell/restoration movement, or maybe the Puritans, somehow the Bible stopped being scripture and started being "The Word of God" Interesting to explore how and when that happened.
it became "Word of God" when psychic Church stopped understanding pneumatic notion of Spirit and Truth, while remnants of Paul's pneumatic students (like Valentinus) slowly faded away.
OK I can accept what you are saying in that it works for you. I simply wonder though, the KJV is so far removed from the original manuscripts, or what is left of them, And amount to a translation of a translation of a translation along with a political agenda...That is my take
Consider this
Old testament as far as we can tell, was written almost entirely in Hebrew, although there are a few Aramaic references. The stories, prior to being recorded, possibly on order from David, were told orally through the tribes. The earliest translation, the Septuagint, was written in Greek.
All New Testament books were written in Greek, a language that neither Jesus nor his apostles spoke. But it was notable because Hellenistic Jews often wrote things, while there was a higher amount of illiteracy amongst Jewish Laborers and commoners. SO Jesus likely himself did not write, and did not order his followers to "hand out these leaflets to each town" but rather to preach an oral lesson as taught to them.....
Paul was literate, but again, was writing in Hellenistic Greek, and the style of writing of the later epistles, such as James, were likely not from eyewitnesses but reflected views as commonly written (style and manor) of Hellenistic Jews
SO therein, right there is the first early Greek translation.
NOW I own a very old, rare, and illustrated version of the Latin Vulgate, which was translated both from Hebrew and Greek in the 2nd century . It is of itself a work of art. I am told that it was once used as an altar Bible somewhere in the late 1800s , and I know that while it was gifted to me, it carried a very high price tag.
Moving on, the King James Version was more successful than earlier English attempts, but the issue many have was the political maneuvering behind making the Bible look like it fit the form of the Church of England, as well as the fact that it was translated from Greek ,Hebrew Aramaic and Latin, Latin not being in use until the 2nd or 3rd century. I think that in such translation, much can be lost (like the existence of unicorns?) and perhaps the accuracy of the translation does not reflect the full intended style and message that one who is fluent in ancient languages might find.
Which sadly, drops me out at this point.
I guess the important thing though is that you have identified that something has worked well for you. No one can question that, or take that from you.
I asked only because I wondered if you had some reason for favoring the KJV and thanks for answering
I have always had the question though, and Mystic and others have discussed it I think herein, and that is at what point did the bible stop being Scripture and somehow become the Word of God ?
I think that in early Christian times, for example, there were likely Many versions of the Gospel (Jesus' teachings and messages) floating around unwritten. people had to get together and compare what they saw nd heard when they met him. And keep in mind, he was not even significant enough at the time, according to the stories, for Rome to even have him on the Radar; Judas had to point him out in the crowd. And this was BEFORE any written gospel account, like Mark or Luke. John even came much later. While I disagree with everything about Paul, his writings (letters) were used as guides by local congregations, and were seen not so much as scripture but as "good advice" as to how to formulate a community of followers and faith therein. When the canon was formed, it served as a reference for early Christian churches. That was all, a reference. It was not, and was not intended to be , the "Word of God"
It was not until after canonization and even took into the 5th century For all the various churches to agree on the canonization of the Bible and all to accept it as scripture.
But at some point, maybe in the reformation, or maybe in the Campbell/restoration movement, or maybe the Puritans, somehow the Bible stopped being scripture and started being "The Word of God" Interesting to explore how and when that happened.
I believe that the church had to define the canon of holy scripture, partially, in order to defend against the invasion of gnostic documents into the church.
In Revelation 2:2, we find that the early church tested the apostles who penned holy scripture and found the gnostic writers to be false. Those who wrote what is included in the Holy Bible today were found to be true apostles; and therefore the documents penned by them were included in the Bible as holy scripture.
I do believe that 2 Timothy 3:15-17 has a bearing on the answer to your question.
I grew up in that generation as well. Respect didn't come from a paddle, rather by giving and getting respect. It sounds like you were a bully, who had no respect for himself or his parents. But I suppose, some of you needed a can of whoop-ass to straighten you out? It's the only way you would listen or learn.
Often times, parents use the school system, teachers as Surrogate parents - because they have no time for their children - it's not always a priority for them. In other words, don't put all the blame on the children. And take responsibility for your own thoughts, deeds, and actions. I never had to spake my children, nor was I beaten by my parents. I suppose you would also whoop a child for being autistic as well?
Autistic kids are dealt with differently. Some children respond great to different methods of discipline, i completely agree there. Some people I know personally responded best from the paddle method. Discipline that is effective is needed. When society as a whole is disrespectful then one can be certain that whatever discipline method used is not effective and should be changed. That is this modern society today, lack of effective discipline.
I do believe that 2 Timothy 3:15-17 has a bearing on the answer to your question.
There was a definite rivalry between Gnostics and orthodox Christians in the early times, the orthodox winning out on the canonization of the scripture.
I want to point out that no part of the Bible is self-proving, including 2 Timothy 3:15-17. When that was written, the Bible DID NOT EXIST! Any "Scripture" that Was referenced herein, was in reference to Jewish Scriptures, not the Bible.
Now I think that Paul probably would have LOVED the idea of his writings being equated with scripture, but we must remember that the Bible, even written accounts of the gospel had not been canonized or acceptd as such.
So no, 2 Timothy does not in any way make the Bible the "Word ofgod"
Going to the greek translations, we only see that "All scripture is god inspired" and "Useful" at no point do we see that scripture is exclusive. That eliminates sola scriptura.
And I have mentioned before, read some Buddhist scripture and see that it too is inspired and inspiring. Maybe "ALL" scripture should include that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
