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God does not require anyone to be a scholar to know His Holy Spirit of agape love and Jesus made it unambiguous and obvious by His demonstration of it. I have posted the states of mind that indicate a Holy Spirit state of mind and you do not need to be a scholar to know what they are like.
You also do not need to be a scholar to know whether or not a given verse or claim, or sentiment, or state of mind is compatible with the Holy Spirit of agape love. So, I reject your reasoning that only scholars would be able to know God or Jesus or be able to parse the claims in the Bible using God's Holy Spirit of agape love as unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
But, you have eliminated justice from that list; which is clearly an attribute of the Lord. And you have also particularly excluded judgment.
What you call justice is a HUMAN construct based on vengeance and bears no resemblance to true justice which can only be administered by God. What you call judgment is merely the spiritual consequence of our choices and behavior, NOT punishment imposed by God. We vengeful creatures try to establish deterrents to undesirable behavior in our societies, and we do a miserable job of it. On the other hand, God will balance the scales in all directions eventually which is the only true justice that can ever exist. No justice would ever involve an eternal consequence of any kind, period.
Job 34:10, Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11, For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12, Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
Job 34:13, Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?
Job 34:14, If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
Job 34:15, All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Job 34:16, If now thou hast understanding, hear this: hearken to the voice of my words.
Job 34:17, Shall even he that hateth right govern? and wilt thou condemn him that is most just?
Job 34:18, Is it fit to say to a king, Thou art wicked? and to princes, Ye are ungodly?
Job 34:19, How much less to him that accepteth not the persons of princes, nor regardeth the rich more than the poor? for they all are the work of his hands.
Is it not loving in a form of government to create, as a deterrent, a punishment for murder? I say to you that it is truly loving towards those who might be the victims of such a crime if the deterrent did not exist!
Or, perhaps, you think that it is in accordance with agape love that a murderer should get away with his crime and be set free to commit it another time?
What you call justice is a HUMAN construct based on vengeance and bears no resemblance to true justice which can only be administered by God. What you call judgment is merely the spiritual consequence of our choices and behavior, NOT punishment imposed by God. We vengeful creatures try to establish deterrents to undesirable behavior in our societies, and we do a miserable job of it. On the other hand, God will balance the scales in all directions eventually which is the only true justice that can ever exist. No justice would ever involve an eternal consequence of any kind, period.
Those who are cast into hell, because they have not been born again, their sin nature has not been dealt with.
So, they will add sin to sin after having been cast into hell; and there will be no end to their punishment because there will be no end to their practice of sinning.
Thus the consequences for rejecting the remedy to a sin nature are eternal.
What you call justice is a HUMAN construct based on vengeance and bears no resemblance to true justice which can only be administered by God. What you call judgment is merely the spiritual consequence of our choices and behavior, NOT punishment imposed by God. We vengeful creatures try to establish deterrents to undesirable behavior in our societies, and we do a miserable job of it. On the other hand, God will balance the scales in all directions eventually which is the only true justice that can ever exist. No justice would ever involve an eternal consequence of any kind, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Those who are cast into hell, because they have not been born again, their sin nature has not been dealt with.
So, they will add sin to sin after having been cast into hell; and there will be no end to their punishment because there will be no end to their practice of sinning.
Nonsense. Refining out the sin nature IS the purpose of the lake of fire NOT punishment, JBF. Your concept of punishment is a HUMAN one and does not apply to God's perfect justice.
Nonsense. Refining out the sin nature IS the purpose of the lake of fire NOT punishment, JBF. Your concept of punishment is a HUMAN one and does not apply to God's perfect justice.
Show us in the scripture where the "lake of fire" is the refinement of the sin nature!
Those who are cast into hell, because they have not been born again, their sin nature has not been dealt with.
So, they will add sin to sin after having been cast into hell; and there will be no end to their punishment because there will be no end to their practice of sinning.
Thus the consequences for rejecting the remedy to a sin nature are eternal.
Show us in the scripture where the "lake of fire" is the refinement of the sin nature!
You have to interpret it using a different context and a more accurate version than the KJV.
In the KJV:
Psa 140:10, Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
This gives the impression that the person is thrown in the fire never to rise again. But in a more accurate version, it can be seen to refer to the dross in their Spirit that "heaps burning coals" (of remorse and regret) on them and it is the coals that are thrown into the fire never to rise in them again.
Psalm 140:10 Young's Literal Translation
10 They cause to fall on themselves burning coals, Into fire He doth cast them, Into deep pits -- they arise not.
You have to interpret it using a different context and a more accurate version than the KJV.
In the KJV:
Psa 140:10, Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
This gives the impression that the person is thrown in the fire never to rise again. But in a more accurate version, it can be seen to refer to the dross in their Spirit that "heaps burning coals" (of remorse and regret) on them and it is the coals that are thrown into the fire never to rise in them again.
Psalm 140:10 Young's Literal Translation
10 They cause to fall on themselves burning coals, Into fire He doth cast them, Into deep pits -- they arise not.
If you're looking with an agenda, yeah, sure! But look at the two with no agenda and they say the same thing. It's a matter of where your heart is, looking for truth or to fulfill a preconception.
If you're looking with an agenda, yeah, sure! But look at the two with no agenda and they say the same thing. It's a matter of where your heart is, looking for truth or to fulfill a preconception.
That you recognize it depends on where your heart is and yet you still prefer your interpretation causes me to worry over the state of your heart, Charlie. I am even more worried because you won't query it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) as Jesus instructed us to do to know the Truth God has written there.
That you recognize it depends on where your heart is and yet you still prefer your interpretation causes me to worry over the state of your heart, Charlie. I am even more worried because you won't query it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) as Jesus instructed us to do to know the Truth God has written there.
Well, I appreciate your concern, but Charlie is going to be ok as long as He doesn't deny the preaching of judgement that Christ gave us like some here do.
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The is nothing eternal except God himself.
