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I think a mistake people make is thinking that people who are not good at college skills are automatically good at trade skills.
If some kid fails out of high school or college because he didn't try or couldn't do it, is he going to succeed at a trade that takes a lot of commitment and skill to do well?
True. True. To be successful at anything requires effort and determination. College can be very high pressure and sink or swim. Failure in college is expensive and permanent black mark. The benefit of trades is they allow kids to grow and mature while they learn useful skills. There is more time for them to learn and make mistakes on the job since the entry level pay isn't as high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me
Depends on where you’re getting trained for a trade. Certification programs for auto mechanics cost 10-25k. A coworker was shocked her son couldn’t get a job at an auto repair shop as an apprentice and instead had to spend 2 years and about 20k to get the certifications needed to get hired. Maybe that differs in other places, but that’s the norm where I live.
I think this is where the role of government should be examined. Education costs money but if done intelligently it grows the economy and lifts everyone up. Locally, kids can get some of those certifications and do apprenticeships while in High School.
It seems like that kind of supports what some of us have been saying:
According to this survey, two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, half of high schoolers are no longer considering four-year college and less than half believe a four-year degree will make them successful.More than half are open to a path other than four-year college, and because of the pandemic, one-third say they're more comfortable with following a shorter pathway. Despite that, 85% feel pressure to pursue a four-year degree.
Seventy-five percent of high schoolers have a career in mind and 74% believe it is important to have their career plans determined when they graduate from high school. Also, 73% think a direct path to a career is essential in postsecondary education and 39% have taken classes on career exploration or have participated in a program to help them determine future career paths.
Teens are aware of worker shortages in in-demand fields, many of which do not require four-year degrees: teaching, healthcare, human services, hospitality, skilled trades
Only 39% feel that their high school has prepared them for postsecondary education
81% said learning the skills they need to be successful is an important factor in their decision about education after high school Nearly one-third would consider enrolling in career and technical education if there was a guarantee that they would develop stronger skills
It seems like that kind of supports what some of us have been saying:
According to this survey, two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, half of high schoolers are no longer considering four-year college and less than half believe a four-year degree will make them successful.More than half are open to a path other than four-year college, and because of the pandemic, one-third say they're more comfortable with following a shorter pathway. Despite that, 85% feel pressure to pursue a four-year degree.
Seventy-five percent of high schoolers have a career in mind and 74% believe it is important to have their career plans determined when they graduate from high school. Also, 73% think a direct path to a career is essential in postsecondary education and 39% have taken classes on career exploration or have participated in a program to help them determine future career paths.
Teens are aware of worker shortages in in-demand fields, many of which do not require four-year degrees: teaching, healthcare, human services, hospitality, skilled trades
Only 39% feel that their high school has prepared them for postsecondary education
81% said learning the skills they need to be successful is an important factor in their decision about education after high school Nearly one-third would consider enrolling in career and technical education if there was a guarantee that they would develop stronger skills
I didn't offer a position on the topic in my post. Just provided some data.
True. True. To be successful at anything requires effort and determination. College can be very high pressure and sink or swim. Failure in college is expensive and permanent black mark. The benefit of trades is they allow kids to grow and mature while they learn useful skills. There is more time for them to learn and make mistakes on the job since the entry level pay isn't as high.
I think this is where the role of government should be examined. Education costs money but if done intelligently it grows the economy and lifts everyone up. Locally, kids can get some of those certifications and do apprenticeships while in High School.
I agree.
In my area, before a number of things went "sideways", in the manufacturing sector, there were several large corporations that were pretty much "self sufficient", meaning that along with the employees that were on staff manufacturing their products for sale, they also had a number of electricians, machinists, plumbers, etc, on the payroll, to insure that the facility was able to run with minimal interruption.
These businesses had "co-op plans" with the area high schools, where interested students could obtain "part time" work in the factory, getting paid while getting "hands-on" experience in the various fields. They weren't obligated to continue on, after HS graduation, but if they did, they were readily hired by the businesses, and the time that they "co-oped" was counted toward their length of service with the company. They had a good paying, secure job, and were able to retire at a reasonably young age.
Most trade jobs only pay well if you own you're own business, Union trade person or work for a larger corporation or government, if you work for mom and pop business it's not going to pay well but that is where many start out.
Most trade jobs only pay well if you own you're own business, Union trade person or work for a larger corporation or government, if you work for mom and pop business it's not going to pay well but that is where many start out.
You start out with a small (or "mom and pop" place as you call it) as an apprentice to a journeyman or master. Work and study hard, put in qualifying hours then take exams to become licensed yourself. From there you can go onto other things. That's how it's done.
Trade schools per se are rather a new invention historically speaking. Prior to their arrival above is how things were done for all sorts of trades and professions.
You can’t compare skilled trades and average college earnings. The only meaningful comparisons is median wages of HS degree vs college degree. You want to compare in a way that makes your case for the trades.
And nowhere did I say trades were unskilled but it is a fact that while most trades folks have certifications etc they typically do not have a college degree.
Of course no one path fits all. Some trades people do very very well. So do some college graduates. But the fact remaining is that based on median income, a college degree leads to higher earning and less chance of unemployment. Saying that isn’t a slam on the trades, it’s just one more thing to consider when deciding what to do.
Well not all degrees are equally valuable, and not all trades pay the same. Some people are better working with their hands, and some are not. A lot of trades work is associated with construction of some sort, nothing wrong with that, but you do end up working further from home, generally. While as an auto mechanic you can probably stay at the same shop as long as you want to and are doing good work.
I learned to work on cars, mechanical and body, and to weld, mostly weld on car bodies, not heavy welding, as a kid while I was in school for my Physics degree. Having some blue collar skills helps me work with trades people when we actually try to build a design. It also has me thinking about how something can be made and how to make a design easier to build, because I have some knowledge of how it will be built.
Of course, early in the design process, I'm out there in the shop talking with the machinists, welders, etc. and getting ideas from them. This gives me better ideas and also helps their attitude towards me, they realize I'm not a clean-fingernail geek who wouldn't know how to change the oil in a lawnmower if his life depended on it.
Well not all degrees are equally valuable, and not all trades pay the same. Some people are better working with their hands, and some are not. A lot of trades work is associated with construction of some sort, nothing wrong with that, but you do end up working further from home, generally. While as an auto mechanic you can probably stay at the same shop as long as you want to and are doing good work.
I learned to work on cars, mechanical and body, and to weld, mostly weld on car bodies, not heavy welding, as a kid while I was in school for my Physics degree. Having some blue collar skills helps me work with trades people when we actually try to build a design. It also has me thinking about how something can be made and how to make a design easier to build, because I have some knowledge of how it will be built.
Of course, early in the design process, I'm out there in the shop talking with the machinists, welders, etc. and getting ideas from them. This gives me better ideas and also helps their attitude towards me, they realize I'm not a clean-fingernail geek who wouldn't know how to change the oil in a lawnmower if his life depended on it.
I guess my point is that there is a third way.
That's much the way I feel. Even though my education is, like yours, in physics, I consider shop one of my most valuable classes, for much of what you said. It trained many of the problem solving and real-world skills I need daily on the job. Nothing gets built without the machinists and welders and others and being able to talk to them rather than at them really helps things get done.
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