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Old 01-10-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,920 posts, read 5,220,820 times
Reputation: 3425

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
I amended my post. It's just like saying Hitler was far-left because everything was under control of the government. People are stupid and forget he prepared for a world war and had to do this to even be able to wage a total war, which mans the entire economy is being mobilized and used just for one purpose - war. Of course this has nothing to do with being "left". There's a reason they have some elements you don't consider far-right. And it's not just immigration but also things such as getting France out of the E.U. , getting rid of the Euro, customs borders etc. And from what I read, Le Pen called phasing-out welfare programs etc. Of course they were smart enough to change course in order to get some votes. But just because they tell people this or that to get their votes, dosen't mean that's what they actually stand for.
I amended my post too. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. No, Hitler wasn't a model capitalist either, what's your point? By the way you define "left" and "right" there is no doubt in mind that you are American, as it is very different from the European perspective. In Europe, "liberal" stands for economic freedom first and foremost and therefore it is classified as "right wing" (in many countries it is the most right-wing party). Christian parties are centrist, there is no clear link between Christianity and capitalism. And there is also no link between anti-immigration and capitalism, in fact those who are most anti-immigrant also tend to be mostly leftist in economic terms. You are looking at this with American bias. I can't believe I even have to explain this, I thought it was common sense
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:01 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,465,460 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I amended my post too. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. No, Hitler wasn't a model capitalist either, what's your point? By the way you define "left" and "right" there is no doubt in mind that you are American, as it is very different from the European perspective. In Europe, "liberal" stands for economic freedom first and foremost and therefore it is classified as "right wing" (in many countries it is the most right-wing party). Christian parties are centrist, there is no clear link between Christianity and capitalism. And there is also no link between anti-immigration and capitalism, in fact those who are most anti-immigrant also tend to be mostly leftist in economic terms. You are looking at this with American bias. I can't believe I even have to explain this, I thought it was common sense
You don't know what you're talking about. Next.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:04 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,920 posts, read 5,220,820 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
You don't know what you're talking about. Next.
I don't know what I'm talking about? I study European politics and I live in Europe.

Anyway, there's no point in continuing this conversation. Let's get back on topic, indeed.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:10 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,465,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I don't know what I'm talking about? I study European politics and I live in Europe.

Anyway, there's no point in continuing this conversation. Let's get back on topic, indeed.
Yes, we know what happens when Europeans get fooled by or underestimate far-right wing parties. Death and War for everyone.

Last edited by Glucorious; 01-10-2012 at 06:13 PM.. Reason: tweak
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:24 PM
 
59 posts, read 134,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
Yes, we know what happens when Europeans get fooled by or underestimate far-right wing parties. Death and War for everyone.
I'm sick and tired to read about lepen's party beeing a far right party. It's not, it's a sovereignist party, with a leftist economical program.
Yes, this party is well known for its ideas about the danger of too much immigration. And i must emphasize this is about an excess of immigration, not the immigration itself.
So what ? I hear the same thing from republicans. Is the republican party a far right party ?

Some facts about France :
Legal immigration in France per year : 200.000 people
Immigrant with a work permit : 20.000
The rest, 180.000 come with no formation or to join their family. (i'm not counting illegals).

As soon as they're in France, they can receive everything for free, and when i say everything, this is everything, from health care to retirement pensions, housing, school... Does it ring a bell ?

Even with the ridiculous amount of taxes french are paying, it's still not enough and the deficits are piling up. We've got a 10% unemployment rate, and still we continue to welcome every uneducated and poor people of the planet. The most popular name given to new borns in Marseille ? Mohamed. It says it all.

It's not a far right opinion, it's just common sense to lower our immigration to protect our economy. Lepen's party is actually the only party taking this problem seriously, hence its popularity. In my humble opinion, and considering the demographic pressure from the south, it's do or die, and i could say the same about the US by the way.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:24 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,465,460 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperz View Post
I'm sick and tired to read about lepen's party beeing a far right party. It's not, it's a sovereignist party, with a leftist economical program.
Yes, this party is well known for its ideas about the danger of too much immigration. And i must emphasize this is about an excess of immigration, not the immigration itself.
So what ? I hear the same thing from republicans. Is the republican party a far right party ?

Some facts about France :
Legal immigration in France per year : 200.000 people
Immigrant with a work permit : 20.000
The rest, 180.000 come with no formation or to join their family. (i'm not counting illegals).

As soon as they're in France, they can receive everything for free, and when i say everything, this is everything, from health care to retirement pensions, housing, school... Does it ring a bell ?

Even with the ridiculous amount of taxes french are paying, it's still not enough and the deficits are piling up. We've got a 10% unemployment rate, and still we continue to welcome every uneducated and poor people of the planet. The most popular name given to new borns in Marseille ? Mohamed. It says it all.

It's not a far right opinion, it's just common sense to lower our immigration to protect our economy. Lepen's party is actually the only party taking this problem seriously, hence its popularity. In my humble opinion, and considering the demographic pressure from the south, it's do or die, and i could say the same about the US by the way.
Well, you seem to be a member of NF. So what can I say
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:47 PM
 
59 posts, read 134,075 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
Well, you seem to be a member of NF. So what can I say
I already said i was not voting for this party. Doesn't mean i don't agree with some of its political views.

If you prefer to stick with your preconceived thoughts, by all means be my guest. You don't have much to say about it anyway.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:07 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,465,460 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperz View Post
I already said i was not voting for this party. Doesn't mean i don't agree with some of its political views.

If you prefer to stick with your preconceived thoughts, by all means be my guest. You don't have much to say about it anyway.
I don't have to say much about the Nazis, either. Some things speak for themselves.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:27 PM
 
1,017 posts, read 2,486,401 times
Reputation: 743
I heard that the people in Paris are rude.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:23 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,921 posts, read 38,847,379 times
Reputation: 20949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
I don't have to say much about the Nazis, either. Some things speak for themselves.
I don't think throwing them up with the Nazis is appropriate at all. What happened in the Nazi regime was extreme in its rhetoric from the very beginning, and extreme in a very terrifying way. Throwing that comment out there is almost designed to shut down a conversation rather than any rational argument for the policies at hand. I should state that I am by no means a member or supporter of the NF.
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