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I was wondering how long it would take for Russian propaganda to start attacking Ze. Looks like its begun. Yes, he is going to be president because Trump picked him to be. LOL I needed that laugh thanks. This unmanaged democracy is a horror show to the Kremlin. Russians are having a demonstration on how a government can be peacefully removed/changed by the people. I can see why the Russian government hates it. This is unacceptable that a government survives on the will of the people...
So we have the will of the people expressed, they get to choose the whipping boy!!!!
Everybody knows presidents don't run countries, presidents are placebos. The people in the shadows, behind the curtains and skulking about in all manner of places are the ones who run things.
There's a reason why Seattle got a tunnel WHEN THE PEOPLE SAID NOT TO BUILD IT.
There's a reason Crimea got the bridge and that's because the people wanted it and it was needed for many other important reasons.
Managed democracy seems to work better than a bunch of emotionally incontinent puppets like we have here. Ukraine is no different.
I don't "attack" Ze.
In my eyes he is quite likable.
I just understand that the problem is bigger than "Ze."
The problem is that Ukraine is already sold to slavery to IMF, and there is nothing Ze can do.
I know as well, that Ukrainians were voting for Goloborodko, for the "Servant of the people" - the way Ze portrayed him, saying in the movie that "We are a beautiful country, not some transitional land between the elves and the ogres."
In real life Ze is already changing the tune, saying that IMF is not going anywhere, and he intends to pay the loans.
And THAT means trouble and more trouble for Ukrainians ( particularly combined with the right-wing reforms that IMF demands.)
I wasn't saying you were attacking him. But Tsarev is one of their mouthpieces. It's an absolute disaster for Putin because the narrative can no longer be Nazi's are endangering Russians if a Russian speaking Jew wins the presidency. The far right got about 1.8% of the vote. And yet this guy with support from the east and south is pushing for an anti-corruption euro-integration platform. You probably still don't get that those are the same platform... I almost think Putin wishes Poroshenko will win so he has a convenient enemy.
I think you don't get the IMF. The IMF didn't issue new loans. They refinance them at a better rate and terms. Yes Ukraine has to pay the loans back from the Yanukovich fraud era. Britain used the IMF in the past. So has Sweden. You might call them slaves but I call it financial freedom. The reforms the IMF demands are the same reforms the rest of Eastern Europe did at one point or another. Good for them, get it on with already. You want Ze to come out saying Ukraine will default but he would lose the election on this platform. 1998 was no fun in Russia.
I wasn't saying you were attacking him. But Tsarev is one of their mouthpieces. It's an absolute disaster for Putin because the narrative can no longer be Nazi's are endangering Russians if a Russian speaking Jew wins the presidency. The far right got about 1.8% of the vote. And yet this guy with support from the east and south is pushing for an anti-corruption euro-integration platform. You probably still don't get that those are the same platform... I almost think Putin wishes Poroshenko will win so he has a convenient enemy.
I think you don't get the IMF. The IMF didn't issue new loans. They refinance them at a better rate and terms. Yes Ukraine has to pay the loans back from the Yanukovich fraud era. Britain used the IMF in the past. So has Sweden. You might call them slaves but I call it financial freedom. The reforms the IMF demands are the same reforms the rest of Eastern Europe did at one point or another. Good for them, get it on with already. You want Ze to come out saying Ukraine will default but he would lose the election on this platform. 1998 was no fun in Russia.
A loan is financial freedom? That's a debt dude. YOU OWE SOMEONE MONEY PLUS THE INTEREST ON IT.
I wasn't saying you were attacking him. But Tsarev is one of their mouthpieces. It's an absolute disaster for Putin because the narrative can no longer be Nazi's are endangering Russians if a Russian speaking Jew wins the presidency. The far right got about 1.8% of the vote. And yet this guy with support from the east and south is pushing for an anti-corruption euro-integration platform. You probably still don't get that those are the same platform... I almost think Putin wishes Poroshenko will win so he has a convenient enemy.
I think you don't get the IMF. The IMF didn't issue new loans. They refinance them at a better rate and terms. Yes Ukraine has to pay the loans back from the Yanukovich fraud era. Britain used the IMF in the past. So has Sweden. You might call them slaves but I call it financial freedom. The reforms the IMF demands are the same reforms the rest of Eastern Europe did at one point or another. Good for them, get it on with already. You want Ze to come out saying Ukraine will default but he would lose the election on this platform. 1998 was no fun in Russia.
In a coffin I saw such financial freedom. Now in Ukraine the situation is almost exactly as it was in Russia in the 90s. At first, the West, with the hands of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, destroyed the country and plunged it into chaos (how Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko and his friends are plunged Ukraine into the chaos). Then was put us on IMF loans, which were successfully stolen and to withdrawn to accounts in Western banks. When we were the best of friends with West? Yes, in the Yeltsin era! Because in those days Yeltsin only did booze and he did not care about what was happening in the country. And West were able with impunity to plunder the resources of Russia by hands the oligarchs and also hands of pro-wests corrupt puppets in power. And the default of 1998 was just a consequence of this. And when Putin came to power and blocked this "gold mine", Russia suddenly immediately became an "authoritarian dictatorship". And we're still raking in all these problems.
I wasn't saying you were attacking him. But Tsarev is one of their mouthpieces. It's an absolute disaster for Putin because the narrative can no longer be Nazi's are endangering Russians if a Russian speaking Jew wins the presidency. The far right got about 1.8% of the vote. And yet this guy with support from the east and south is pushing for an anti-corruption euro-integration platform. You probably still don't get that those are the same platform... I almost think Putin wishes Poroshenko will win so he has a convenient enemy.
DKM...
Your "crew" over there and you are obviously clueless as ever.
It's not that the nazis are not there any longer; it's just that they finally realized with their dumb heads that pro-western corrupt oligarch is no different than pro-Russian corrupt oligarch; in fact he is even worse for a number of reasons.
That's why they will be more quiet for now ( I repeat FOR NOW.)
But they are really not going anywhere, they will be watching Ze VERY CLOSELY.
That's number one. Number two - Ze is not such disaster for Putin as you think; he knows that Ukraine is trapped with all the IMF loans and right wing reforms, the kind he is pushing onto Russia himself. But if Russians won't protest them for a number of reasons, Ukrainians will. So the time is on his side.
And number three - Oleg Tzarev is not "Kremlin's mouthpiece."
Your "crew" in Eastern Ukraine has very primitive understanding of politics.
Putin's Kremlin is staunchly right-wing; Tzarev is a moderate left. With that being said, intelligent people like Tzarev simply understand that Ukraine's well-being of economy depends on Russia, whether he likes it or not.
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I think you don't get the IMF. The IMF didn't issue new loans. They refinance them at a better rate and terms. Yes Ukraine has to pay the loans back from the Yanukovich fraud era.
You need to look at what they became in Poroshenko's fraud era.
Yanukovich AT LEAST was putting breaks on the most painful reforms for his people demanded by IMF.
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Britain used the IMF in the past. So has Sweden. You might call them slaves but I call it financial freedom.
To compare Britain/Sweden with Ukraine in this situation is funny at least. Calling loans "financial freedom" is even funnier in this situation.
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The reforms the IMF demands are the same reforms the rest of Eastern Europe did at one point or another. Good for them, get it on with already.
That's why East European countries are effectively dying out now. Well yes - good for them I suppose.
Same fate is awaiting Ukraine.
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You want Ze to come out saying Ukraine will default but he would lose the election on this platform. 1998 was no fun in Russia.
No I want Ze to look at the budget, IMF intended reforms, then to come forward and to tell his people the truth.
In the same manner he was doing it in his movie.
No I want Ze to look at the budget, IMF intended reforms, then to come forward and to tell his people the truth.
In the same manner he was doing it in his movie.
I can go on and on explaining in details. why IMF loans and the reforms that are demanded along with those loans are detrimental for that part of the world ( Russia or Ukraine - doesn't matter.) They are as destructive for both, as Socialism imposed on America would have been destructive for it as well.
and in post #91, pay attention at this part yet again;
"On September 19, the IMF made public its decision to delay indefinitely the disbursement of the $1.5 billion loan to Russia. The IMF complained that Russia had not made promised budget cuts and had not reined in credit to industry. Accordingly, the money would not be forthcoming unless and until Russia “returned to the path of economic reform.” The World Bank also delayed a planned $600 million loan for Russia. A senior Clinton administration official said, We’re very encouraged by Gaidar’s return and by indications from the Russian government that they now see the need for a rapid turn toward stabilization.”
After visiting Moscow on September 14-15, Treasury Undersecretary Summers said that the Russian situation had improved since mid-summer: “The recent inflation has been too high, but I am encouraged by Russia’s official plans to get financial conditions back under control. It is crucial that these plans be implemented as a basis for economic growth in Russia and for the full effectiveness of Western support.”
The Summers visit was critically important [as one commentator noted]: “Just before Yeltsin’s dissolution of the Congress September 21, the administration sent . . . Summers to Moscow to talk about the conditions for impending IMF aid. . . . Gaidar was immediately brought back as first deputy prime minister, and for the first time he really applied the shock therapy the IMF had been demanding. Bread prices were raised to the point where the daily minimum wage was roughly equal to the price of a loaf of bread in Moscow, and Gaidar promised a vigorous reduction of subsidies beginning January 1 of [1994]."
These are the direct results of these reforms, ( just an example,) demanded by the IMF - the collapse of the social security net, that was in place back in Soviet times.
Russia's problems in the 90s weren't because of the IMF. That is a bizarre assertion to make. The IMF demands countries fix their institutions and policies which led them to economic destablization in the 1st place. Its a big other topic about the usefulness of the IMF but to describe it as a nefarious conspiracy is just crazy. The past 40 years has plenty of cases of where the IMF helped countries get on the right financial track. Ukraine is NOT on the right track and the IMF can help. The way they do it is by making countries adopt beneficial fiscal positions. That Ukrainians can't afford gas is an economy problem, not a government budget problem. The Yanukovich era borrowed a lot of money to pay for cheap gas and now it needs to be repaid.
I guess it keeps coming back to the same thing. Ukraine needs to reform its institutions and government to increase the rule of law and decrease government connections as a source of revenue. Russia does not provide a model for this. Europe does. Eastern Europe isn't dying. Its doing far better for its people than the government of Ukraine. However, Putin sees this as a threat to his own system and keeps the war burning and the propaganda on full blast to harm Ukraine so it can blame the West for Ukraine's problems.
Russia's problems in the 90s weren't because of the IMF. That is a bizarre assertion to make.
Russia's problems in the 90ies were the economic reforms, orchestrated by the IMF. Precisely as my excerpt from the book stated. There is nothing "bizarre" about it.
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The IMF demands countries fix their institutions and policies which led them to economic destablization in the 1st place.
The IMF demands "countries fix their institutions and policies" in such way, that it would serve the interests of the lenders first and utmost. How it serves the interests of countries in question in the long run is not the IMF concern.
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Its a big other topic about the usefulness of the IMF but to describe it as a nefarious conspiracy is just crazy.
There is nothing "nefarious" about what I stated above.
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The past 40 years has plenty of cases of where the IMF helped countries get on the right financial track.
"Right financial track" from the lender's point of view yet again - yes. For the borrower however it might mean quite the opposite.
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Ukraine is NOT on the right track and the IMF can help. The way they do it is by making countries adopt beneficial fiscal positions.
Yet again - "beneficial" for WHOM exactly?
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I guess it keeps coming back to the same thing. Ukraine needs to reform its institutions and government to increase the rule of law and decrease government connections as a source of revenue. Russia does not provide a model for this.
No, Russia is doing its own thing, unfortunately for the West ( IMF et al.)
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Europe does.
What "Europe?"
It's preposterous to compare Ukraine to France or Germany, as for the Eastern European countries...
Ukraine has a lot of sad examples, that shouldn't be followed.
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Eastern Europe isn't dying.
The statistics/practice show otherwise. There are reasons you see why Ukrainians are encouraged now to move to the countries that are standing half-empty, with its population migrating elsewhere from that "improved life" in their own lands.
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Its doing far better for its people than the government of Ukraine.
However, Putin sees this as a threat to his own system and keeps the war burning and the propaganda on full blast to harm Ukraine so it can blame the West for Ukraine's problems.
Ukraine OBJECTIVELY is in a worse position than those *other* smaller countries ( well some of them, because some of them don't fair much better.)
So it's not just "Putin."
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That's a debt dude. YOU OWE SOMEONE MONEY PLUS THE INTEREST ON IT. 
