Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Soviets are not looked upon so fondly by those victimized by them. The Soviet Union was not a benefactor to most, so this hostility is understood especially against those who still promote the Soviets. But no, rather than seeing it for what it is, your kind blame Western propaganda for those who hate what the Soviets did to their communities.
Don't BS us. Some of us know history. The USSR sacrificed one hell of a lot so that countries like Latvia and Estonia could rebuild after the war. Poland too and others. Do you know what was left of Latvia after the battle of the Courland pocket? Next to nothing. 30% of Latvia was flattened, every farm, every factory, every school, every port, every hospital was damaged or outright destroyed. The USSR helped to rebuild it.
Warsaw was flattened. The USSR helped to rebuild it. I've seen it with my own eyes.
I wonder how much better the lives of Soviet citizens if they had simply left these countries to rot. I think they should have.
Expect a purge of US and EU appointees from the previous Poroshenko government, many of whom were placed there to satisfy the demands of the IMF to oversee the fire sale of public assets to foreign investors.
For the most part, the people who won the "For Life" votes are eastern oligarchs and their representatives. This is nothing new as they are rebranded from the Party of Regions days and still have their regional alliances. Their 13% result from mostly aged 60+ Russian speaking voters from the East is the best they could hope for. There isn't much to make of this as they will clearly have no power, even if their members fly to Moscow to shake hands with Putin. They pretend to be pro Russian but are mostly pro themselves and protecting their economic interests in ex -Soviet industries they control.
So while there are some here clinging to hopes that Ze's voters are really pro Russian and were somehow recently fooled (twice!) to vote for a pro European integration platform, the reality is many of those along the Dnieper river know full well who wants to help them reform their country (the West) and who is attacking them for trying to make this choice (Russia).
*Sigh*
DKM...
You still don't get it.
These are not the 90ies any longer, when in that part of the world ( Russia including) the words like "reformation of the country, the West" were all it takes to get people excited.
This still might work for the bleating idiots from the Western part of Ukraine, but the EASTERNERS know better.
So what a lot of Easterners are looking for, first and utmost are the RESULTS, the visible improvement of the living standards across the line, not some gentrification, bantustanization, and meaningless words such as "visa-free EU."
The Easterners do not necessarily want to be dependent on Kremlin, but that doesn't mean that they are not weary that they are simply USED by America for her own benefits, not THEIRS.
There are plenty of intelligent people among them, who are doing their job, who scrutinize each and every official appointed by Ze, their background, their liasons, their actions, and they report it back to the community.
There are thousands ( no, by now millions) of Ukrainians who are subscribed to their blogs and who are listening and watching closely.
As I've said these are not the 90ies any longer, where everyone had access only to the official news provided by the boob-tube - there are alternative sources of information available, and plenty of people in Eastern Ukraine are using them.
On the basis of what they learn, they are becoming increasingly weary of the US involvement as well, not just "Russia-Russia."
What a lot of Easterners are talking about, is how to avoid the dependency on BOTH - Russia AND US. The problem is - Ukraine never had a history of successful independent statehood.
P.S. Your outlook/explanations on Ukrainian oligarchs is even more clumsy.
Everyone knows by now, that the first person who is dependent on oligarchy is Zelensky himself, as much as he likes to deny it.
A sufficient number of people in his surroundings are Kolomoysky's people, which is quite indicative of the opposite.
You seem to be the only one who are not aware of all that.
In spite of all the wiggling of the author on a subject, I can see Trump mumbling to himself "Stay out of it Don, stay out of this crock pot, this "Ukraine" thing."
I can understand where all his distrust is coming from.
In spite of all the wiggling of the author on a subject, I can see Trump mumbling to himself "Stay out of it Don, stay out of this crock pot, this "Ukraine" thing."
On another hand, I think he will not be allowed to stay out. "Show must go on".
Soviets are not looked upon so fondly by those victimized by them.
I do not think that Ukraine was a victim of the Soviet Union. Soviet Ukraine was a flourishing land with powerful industry, powerful agriculture, strong army and the beautiful Black Sea coasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
The Soviet Union was not a benefactor to most, so this hostility is understood especially against those who still promote the Soviets.
The Soviets are dead. Forget it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM
But no, rather than seeing it for what it is, your kind blame Western propaganda for those who hate what the Soviets did to their communities.
It is not Western propaganda. But this is propaganda.
In spite of all the wiggling of the author on a subject, I can see Trump mumbling to himself "Stay out of it Don, stay out of this crock pot, this "Ukraine" thing."
I can understand where all his distrust is coming from.
I think that his intuition is correct yet again.
The relationship may start with a cleaner slate. The previous regime in Ukraine was helping finance the Clinton campaign in 2016 and was involved in the infamous Trump dossier and related activities to sabotage the 2016 election and the subsequent administration of the US government.
I didn't think it mattered for Ukraine, Syria, and the world who won the 2016 election. Trump may have been easier to manipulate and control once he was in office. If the election was to be rigged, I think he would be the preferred choice for monied interests and the deep state.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
