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Old 08-05-2019, 01:18 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690

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But the reality is the opposite. "Select propaganda photos" are what you call Google street view in various parts of the city. I assume that is because the reality is smacking the Ukraine haters in the face. The "its getting worse" mantra applies more to Russia with its falling incomes, frustrated masses and no ability to elect change.

Ukrainians have recently used their power to remove those corrupt idiots in the Rada. (most of the corrupt left in the Rada are the Pro Russians and this irony is not lost) And not only can this affect corruption but what they REALLY want to change is the culture of elite impunity. Its a big problem in both countries, but only 1 is putting people in power to fight it. This is what started 5 years ago and its SCARES Putin and the Russian elite. Thus the batons to the heads in Moscow for people demanding change.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:30 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Kiev:

The average salary in Kiev has reached 590 USD a month, from 500 a year ago, an increase of 18%.

44 malls in Kiev are under renovation or under construction and one big one partially opened yesterday, the River Mall.

Odessa:

3 brand new malls this year, 13 more on the way. A new runway is almost finished at the airport to handle the increase in tourism. International cruise ships are set to dock there first time since 2014.

With consumer confidence at an 8 year high after the election, retail trade jumped by 14% in a year in June. What's driving the growth in retail trade? According to economists at Raiffeisen bank: "double digit increases in real and nominal wages and increases in pensions". According to Concorde Capital: "fast growth of personal income" is driving the boom.

Also increasing are cargo traffic as food and iron product exports are up over 30% since a year ago.

Clearly, terrible times for Ukraine ahead...
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Kiev:

The average salary in Kiev has reached 590 USD a month, from 500 a year ago, an increase of 18%.

44 malls in Kiev are under renovation or under construction and one big one partially opened yesterday, the River Mall.

Odessa:

3 brand new malls this year, 13 more on the way. A new runway is almost finished at the airport to handle the increase in tourism. International cruise ships are set to dock there first time since 2014.

With consumer confidence at an 8 year high after the election, retail trade jumped by 14% in a year in June. What's driving the growth in retail trade? According to economists at Raiffeisen bank: "double digit increases in real and nominal wages and increases in pensions". According to Concorde Capital: "fast growth of personal income" is driving the boom.

Also increasing are cargo traffic as food and iron product exports are up over 30% since a year ago.

Clearly, terrible times for Ukraine ahead...
And if you compare with 2012-2013 years?
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:09 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Kiev:

The average salary in Kiev has reached 590 USD a month, from 500 a year ago, an increase of 18%.

44 malls in Kiev are under renovation or under construction and one big one partially opened yesterday, the River Mall.

Odessa:

3 brand new malls this year, 13 more on the way. A new runway is almost finished at the airport to handle the increase in tourism. International cruise ships are set to dock there first time since 2014.

With consumer confidence at an 8 year high after the election, retail trade jumped by 14% in a year in June. What's driving the growth in retail trade? According to economists at Raiffeisen bank: "double digit increases in real and nominal wages and increases in pensions". According to Concorde Capital: "fast growth of personal income" is driving the boom.

Also increasing are cargo traffic as food and iron product exports are up over 30% since a year ago.

Clearly, terrible times for Ukraine ahead...
Oh wow Malls!!! When I was there years ago I saw malls going up as we rode the train to Gomel. It kind of lifted my spirits after seeing the dead animals on the streets, the trash dumpsters BURIED in the neighborhood we stayed in and the lot behind the McDonalds knee deep in trash.

I wonder how that mall is doing now?

MALLS aren't going to do squat!! You need heavy industry, infrastructure that works, manufacturing, access to resources and just as important GOOD RELATIONS with your neighbors!! Cruise ships!! Filled with sex tourists? LMAO!! I know what they're selling there.

I don't see none of that happening and I sure as hell don't see shopping malls filled with idle sales rats making a different especially when 90% of the population can't even afford to walk through the doors. Ukraine doesn't need to shop, it needs to build a country.

Hell are credit cards next?

Malls are just butter on bullchit. It may look better but people know what it's covering up.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:24 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,443,411 times
Reputation: 9092
This is what Ukraine needs to be in on and by "in on" I mean be a part of, a partner of Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLmK...5s&app=desktop

Russia and China are the next big thing. Europe and the rest of the "World Island" SEE IT.

All Ukraine is going to be is road kill. Too stupid and dysfunctional to get on the train so it just stands there and wonders what that rumble and bright light in the distance might be. Just like history points out.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:29 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
They do matter when they are a result of an improving economy driven by growing incomes. And the vacancy rates are declining.

Since you haven't ever been to Ukraine, let alone anywhere near it in a decade your opinion of real life there might not be very credible.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:44 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
And if you compare with 2012-2013 years?
Income from 2012 to 2013 grew by a whopping 2%. In 2013 in Kiev it was the highest year in nominal terms ($650) but not real terms. Due to the currency collapse after the invasion this makes sense as prices dropped in dollar terms. Using the World Bank's PPP basis, national income in Ukraine has reached an all time high this year. In 2013 it was $8,648. In 2018 it was $9,233. They predict it will reach $9,700 this year. I'm not claiming this is high. I am saying it refutes the claims that its getting worse there now. I know Russia hangs its hat on the hit to Ukraine's economy in 2015 caused by it's invasion but the economy is readjusting away from the old days.

Russia's wages are also lower than their 2013 income level and unlike Ukraine, are getting lower in 2019 than 2018.

Last edited by DKM; 08-05-2019 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:10 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Watch ( and listen) closely, Ukrainians.
This is what's currently happening to your currency ( and why)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KEdvjK28Kk


...and this is what's happening with your land ( that's in a process of being prepared for sale as far as I know.)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDzhwWMgII


( To those of you who are still not aware; this is the investigative journalist turned politician, who brilliantly fought in the court one of the most corrupt MP of Poroshenko's Rada and then made it on Servant of the People's ticket to Rada, winning district 94 ( near Kiev.)

Last edited by erasure; 08-05-2019 at 08:00 PM..
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:59 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
The currency went up because of foreign inflows of capital into Ukraine. It actually went up too fast and the central bank had to buy over a billion dollars and euros on the market to stem the quick rise.

As for the land, its going to be privatized because Ukraine needs to follow the western model of development. It can't stay the same closed Communist/Socialist market if the country wants to move towards a prosperous future. You need to be able to secure financing against land in order to develop agriculture. Private owners of production have always outperformed government owned production. The way it works much better in the west is the land is private and the government taxes it. This tax can end up being more beneficial to the economy than collecting rent.

But if guys like this populist are numerous enough this might turn into a poroshenko style fake reform. We'll see I guess if Ze actually will do what he promised or gives into the vested interests.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:54 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Oh wow Malls!!! When I was there years ago I saw malls going up as we rode the train to Gomel. It kind of lifted my spirits after seeing the dead animals on the streets, the trash dumpsters BURIED in the neighborhood we stayed in and the lot behind the McDonalds knee deep in trash.

I wonder how that mall is doing now?

MALLS aren't going to do squat!! You need heavy industry, infrastructure that works, manufacturing, access to resources and just as important GOOD RELATIONS with your neighbors!! Cruise ships!! Filled with sex tourists? LMAO!! I know what they're selling there.

I don't see none of that happening and I sure as hell don't see shopping malls filled with idle sales rats making a different especially when 90% of the population can't even afford to walk through the doors. Ukraine doesn't need to shop, it needs to build a country.

Hell are credit cards next?

Malls are just butter on bullchit. It may look better but people know what it's covering up.

Of course they are.
DKM conveniently skips a simple subject of how many new metro stations have been opened in Kiev since 2013 for example?

The answer is none. But that's one of the most important parameters of what makes any big European city comfortable for public; whether the system of public transportation is developed adequately, whether the storm water drains are cleaned, whether the trash is picked up timely, whether the new construction is holding up ( such as *cough-cough* that new "super-bridge" proudly presented by Klitchko in the center of the city, which has been closed down for safety concerns already few times...)
THOSE are things that show the development and well-being of the city, THIS, and not how much Chinese-made crap has been peddled through yet another shopping mall, which channels money to few pockets yet again.
And everybody knows by now that under Klichko ( who was in charge of Kiev since 2014) Kiev declined overall.

Everyone is aware of that, except for DKM.
Obviously so.
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