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Old 08-14-2019, 06:45 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,021,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
Imagine this. Some American politicians are so creative that they come up with sanctions literally out of nothing. And not only against Russia, against any country. Moreover, sanctions were periodically imposed and in the Soviet period under various far-fetched pretexts.This is a typical mechanism of the West to deal with unwanted.

The sanctions aren't such a shocker though, they sanction Russia since frankly it doesn't produce as much these days but since it's the largest country on earth with largest amount of natural resources US business wants to harm some russian businessmen and get their hand on russian resources...which isn't so obvious.



But the real fun is how they threat China by banning Huawei which is really absurd and hilarious to watch...even where I live i have 2 fanatical 'pro-american' idiot friends who got mad at this decision and aren't as much of a fans of america anymore lol.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:05 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
Imagine this. Some American politicians are so creative that they come up with sanctions literally out of nothing. And not only against Russia, against any country. Moreover, sanctions were periodically imposed and in the Soviet period under various far-fetched pretexts.This is a typical mechanism of the West to deal with unwanted.
These are your thousands of reasons? It must be entirely a coincidence that the sanctions happened after the invasion of Ukraine for the first time in Russia's history? Russia could make fools out of the west by stopping their war and calling them to drop sanctions because according to you the sanctions would keep going. Far fetched pre-texts...like invading a neighboring country just because they don't want to associate with Russia?

Sorry, that isn't compelling. I do wonder if ordinary Russians are truly buying this official line. It seems at least some in Moscow don't.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:08 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euro123 View Post
The sanctions aren't such a shocker though, they sanction Russia since frankly it doesn't produce as much these days but since it's the largest country on earth with largest amount of natural resources US business wants to harm some russian businessmen and get their hand on russian resources...which isn't so obvious.



But the real fun is how they threat China by banning Huawei which is really absurd and hilarious to watch...even where I live i have 2 fanatical 'pro-american' idiot friends who got mad at this decision and aren't as much of a fans of america anymore lol.
The US isn't a big customer of Russia's resources. Other than titanium, we have plenty of the stuff here that Russia is selling to the world. Getting our hands on those resources isn't easier with sanctions so your argument is nonsense.


Huawei was stealing IP among other things. There is nothing absurd about it, we don't need that company here.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:44 PM
 
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proves? And it's a well known fact america does the same if not worse, this isn't whataboutism it's basically the same thing, it's like hitler accusing others of antisemitism...examples: nsa spying on people (courtesy of snowden), facebook selling data, google "working well with the fbi", who knows what windows/microsoft and others do, oh yeah: apple and amazon too, the list is endless.

America is just jealous in the 20s other government may know what the world does and worse: it's a communist government on the other end of the worls speaking a language they don't.



about the other point: Yes, America have resource but everyone loves money so...
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:46 PM
 
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Crimea is all but self sufficient. Heavy rail will be complete in December. The only problem they face is the perpetual housing crisis everyone seems to have. The head of Crimea has asked for federal help in that area. If you think about it they will probably face a housing shortage forever.

Great effort, great result.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nEcsxTaG_U&app=desktop

The Kiev junta can **** off. Crimea is in another world now.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Russia
1,348 posts, read 625,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
These are your thousands of reasons? It must be entirely a coincidence that the sanctions happened after the invasion of Ukraine for the first time in Russia's history? Russia could make fools out of the west by stopping their war and calling them to drop sanctions because according to you the sanctions would keep going. Far fetched pre-texts...like invading a neighboring country just because they don't want to associate with Russia?

Sorry, that isn't compelling. I do wonder if ordinary Russians are truly buying this official line. It seems at least some in Moscow don't.
All your arguments it's your conjectures that have been sucked out from finger, because you do not own the information. Somewhere, you heard something, but did not delve into the essence. Or hear only what fits into your alternative history. You did not provide a single iron fact, not a single link to sources confirming your words. All your words are just demagoguery and nothing more.

You say what the first time in history, was introduced sanctions against Russia?
Well, well .. Information under the spoiler. Enjoy it.

Spoiler
The sanctions of the West against the Soviet Union. Dossier
From the economic blockade of the Entente countries of Soviet Russia to the sanctions imposed against the USSR by the Ronald Reagan administration,

Economic sanctions are a common tool used in geopolitics by countries or blocs of countries to influence opponents.

In March 2014, the US, the EU, Australia, Japan and Canada imposed the first sanctions against Russia because of the annexation of Crimea. First, the restrictive measures concerned individual citizens who, according to Western countries, contributed to the violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then the sanctions lists were replenished by Russian companies.

Previously, the West has tried to influence the policy of the USSR through economic and political restrictions.

What sanctions have been imposed against the Soviet Union - the TASS material.

Economic blockade of the Entente countries of Soviet Russia
Soon after the Bolsheviks came to power in October 1917, the Entente States (great Britain, France, the USA, etc.) imposed an economic blockade against Soviet Russia (since 1922 - the USSR), completely ending all economic relations with it. The basis for such measures was the beginning in December 1917 of negotiations between the Soviet government and Germany on the conclusion of a separate peace (the Brest peace was signed on March 3, 1918), the nationalization of enterprises owned by foreign capital, and the refusal to pay the debts of the Russian Empire.

In December 1917, trade relations with Soviet Russia ceased in the United States, in 1918 they were joined by England and France. After the end of world war I and the Treaty of Versailles (28 June 1919), the Supreme Council of the Entente declared a complete ban on all forms of economic relations with Soviet Russia. The economic isolation of the RSFSR was joined by Germany, forced to comply with the decisions of the winning countries. The blockade began on 10 October 1919 and lasted until January 16, 1920, Sanctions Entente had a serious impact on foreign trade of the Russian Federation: if in 1918 its turnover was 88.9 million rubles, then in 1919 - 2.6 million rubles.

Anti-dumping measures and other sanctions against the USSR in the early 1930s.
In July 1930, the United States accused the USSR of dumping (deliberately lowering the prices of its goods) when supplying matches, coal, asbestos, manganese and other goods to the United States and introduced protectionist measures (import duties, etc.).

In 1931, the United States banned the import of Soviet lumber from four areas of the European part of the USSR - the Kola Peninsula, the Karelian Autonomous Republic, the Northern region and the Zyryansk Autonomous region - due to the fact that forced labor of prisoners was used in these regions.

On October 3, 1930, France accused the USSR of interfering in its internal Affairs, in particular in financing the subversive activities of the Communist party. As sanctions measures, a system of licensing of Soviet goods was introduced, which led to their rise in price and loss of competitiveness. In the same year, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Belgium and Romania introduced similar measures against Soviet products.

October 20, 1930 the Council of people's Commissars of the USSR adopted a resolution "On economic relations with countries that establish a restrictive regime for trade with the USSR." Foreign trade organizations were prohibited from placing orders and making purchases in sanctioned countries and from chartering their vessels. The use of ports of these countries for transit and re-export operations through the USSR was reduced as much as possible.
The restrictions on trade with France was abolished in 1931 in connection with the denunciation by the French Parliament of the decree of 3 Oct 1930 Embargo against the USA withdrawn after the official establishment of U.S.-Soviet diplomatic relations on November 16, 1933

As a result of anti-dumping measures, the total turnover of Soviet foreign trade fell from 1.6 billion rubles in 1930 to 1.5 billion in 1931. Soviet exports during this period also fell from 812.7 million to 636.1 million rubles.

UK sanctions against the USSR
In March 1933, the Soviet authorities arrested several British engineers working on the construction of power plants in the USSR on charges of espionage and sabotage. Britain demanded the immediate release of its citizens. However, the Soviet court found five Britons guilty, two of them were detained, the rest were expelled from the country to their homeland. In response, on April 26, 1933, the United Kingdom imposed an embargo on imports from the Soviet Union of various types of grain, cotton, timber and petroleum products until the release of its citizens. The next day, the USSR closed the transit of British goods through its territory, Soviet organizations were forbidden to place orders in the UK, use British ports, etc. After non-public negotiations initiated by the Soviet side, on July 1, 1933, British citizens were released and sent home, mutual sanctions were lifted. According to Soviet statistics, the volume of Soviet-British trade in 1933 fell almost twice compared to 1932: from 1 million rubles to 515 thousand rubles.

Sanctions related to the Soviet-Finnish war
November 30, 1939 the Soviet troops began military operations against Finland.
December 2, 1939 the administration of US President Franklin Roosevelt announced the so-called "moral embargo" on trade with the USSR. One of the reasons for its introduction was the bombing of residential areas of Helsinki by Soviet aircraft. In this regard, the embargo imposed a ban on the supply of aircraft to the USSR, as well as materials for the aviation industry, such as aluminum, molybdenum and aviation gasoline. The "moral embargo" was lifted in January 1941, when the United States began to consider the Soviet Union as a potential ally against Hitler's Germany.

The Soviet-Finnish war also led to the exclusion of the USSR from the League of Nations (the USA, Germany, Italy and Japan were not members of the organization at that time). The relevant resolution was adopted by the Council of the League on December 14, 1939.
According to Soviet statistics, the Soviet-Finnish war did not have a negative impact on the foreign trade turnover of the USSR. The volume of trade with the United States in 1939 amounted to RUB 66.1 million in 1940, increased to 95.3 mln Total turnover of Soviet foreign trade also increased from 271,4 mln in 1939 to 485,2 million rubles in 1940.

Restricting exports to the Soviet Union and the socialist countries
With the beginning of the cold war, the United States began to apply a new type of economic sanctions against the USSR and the socialist bloc. They were aimed at blocking access to advanced technologies and high-tech products. In March 1948, the U.S. Department of Commerce restricted the export of strategic materials, equipment and weapons to the USSR and Eastern Europe. In 1949, these restrictions were enshrined in the Export Control Act (Export Control Act).

To implement the restrictive measures in 1949 on the initiative of the United States was established Coordinating Committee for export control (COCOM; Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls, COCOM), which supervised the supply of goods and technologies of the Western States of the USSR and its allies. Kokom included 17 countries (USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, great Britain, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Turkey). Another six States cooperated with the Committee (Austria, Finland, Ireland, New Zealand, Sweden and Switzerland) without formally being members. The Committee developed a strategy of "controlled technological backwardness", according to which equipment and technologies could be sold to socialist countries not earlier than four years after their serial production. KOKOM kept three lists of goods and technologies: the first with a complete ban on exports, the second with exports in limited quantities and the third without export restrictions, but with control over their final use. Any state party to the Committee could veto a sale proposed by another member of the Committee. KOKOM ceased operations in 1994.

The most notorious case of violation of the restrictions imposed by the COOK was the sale in 1982-1984 by the Japanese company Toshiba together with the Norwegian Kongsberg Gruppen of milling machines with software control. With their help, the Soviet industry managed to create a new type of blades for submarines, which have significantly reduced noise level and, consequently, the ability to detect enemy submarines.

Law on the defense of mutual support and control
In 1951, the United States tightened economic restrictions on exports to the socialist States in connection with the war in Korea (1950-1953), where the USSR supported North Korea (DPRK), and the Western States – South.

In the same year, the United States terminated the agreement with the Soviet government on trade in 1937, depriving the USSR of the most favored nation regime. As a result, customs tariffs on Soviet goods increased 4.6 times compared to the level of taxation of goods of other countries. The American Congress passed the Law on mutual defense assistance and control (Mutual Defense Assistance Control Act). According to this document, the United States could refuse economic support (for example, to abolish the most-favoured-nation trade regime) to any state that does not join the embargo against the USSR and "under its influence" countries and will continue to supply them with strategic goods. However, subsequently, under pressure from its European allies, the United States made many amendments and exceptions to the act, which led to the fact that the act did not actually act.

Statistics show that since 1947 the volume of Soviet-American trade began to decline sharply. In 1946 it was 303.9 million rubles, in 1947 - 170 million, in 1948 - 119 million rubles. In 1951, this figure fell to 24.3 million rubles, in 1952 - to 16.2 million Slow growth began only in 1955, the mark of 100 million rubles. was overcome only in 1964. In the same years, the turnover of foreign trade of the USSR with the "industrialized capitalist countries" of the West as a whole grew, having experienced only a small reduction in 1949-1951. In 1947, it was 459.1 million rubles. 1948. - 679 million, in 1949 - 565.8 million, in 1951 - 576.8 million, and in 1952 already 734.5 million rubles.

NATO embargo on the supply of large diameter pipes for the "Druzhba" pipeline
From 1955 to 1965, the USSR increased exports of petroleum products almost tenfold. In 1959, in Prague, the leaders of the member States of the Council for mutual economic assistance (USSR, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland and East Germany) signed an agreement on the construction of the Druzhba oil pipeline, which was to link the USSR and the socialist countries of Eastern Europe.

Construction began in 1960 and was completed in 1964, with the expansion of the pipeline system in 1969, and in 1974 built its second line. Later, in the early 1970s, the Druzhba pipeline system was used to export Soviet oil and gas to capitalist States, primarily to West Germany. One of the problems in the construction was the lack and poor quality of domestic large diameter pipes, the production of which in the USSR has just begun. Therefore, the Soviet Union organized the purchase of such pipes in Western Europe. In October 1962. three major German companies Mannesmann, Hoesch and Phoenix-Rheinrohr signed a contract for their supply to the USSR. Orders were also made in Italy and other Western European countries.

The United States regarded the active promotion of the USSR in the oil and gas market as a "military threat". To counter the construction of the oil pipeline, the us administration organized pressure on its NATO allies through the structure of the Alliance's economic advisers Committee. In November 1962, prepared by the United States project an embargo on the supply of large diameter pipes to the USSR was approved by the North Atlantic Council of NATO (13 of the 15 participating countries). The embargo was Advisory in nature. Initially, Germany and France broke their agreements on the supply of 40-inch pipes to the USSR, which led to a delay in the construction of the pipeline for one year. The first stage of "Friendship" was built from pipes produced in the USSR. Later, under pressure from European manufacturers, the ban on the supply of large diameter pipes in the USSR was completely lifted. In February 1970, Karl Schiller, Minister of economy of Germany, and Nikolai Patolichev, Minister of foreign trade of the USSR, signed a contract for the supply of Soviet natural gas to West Germany – about 3 billion cubic meters per year. For its part, Germany, through the company Mannesmann, paid for the received fuel by supplying 1.2 million tons of large diameter pipes necessary for the construction of the gas pipeline. Deliveries under the contract began on October 1, 1973.

Jackson - Vanik amendment to the U.S. trade Act
In 1974, both houses of the American Parliament considered the trade Act.

At the initiative of Senator Henry Jackson and member of the House of representatives Charles Vanik, the law was amended to abolish the most-favoured-nation trade regime, as well as the provision of credit and credit guarantees for countries that restrict the right of their citizens to emigrate. In addition, the amendment provided for the application of discriminatory tariffs on goods imported into the United States from non-market economies.

The reason for the introduction of these measures was the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of August 3, 1972, according to which citizens traveling for permanent residence abroad and having higher education had to reimburse the state for the costs of their education in universities. The greatest resistance to this measure was met by Soviet Jewish activists who advocated the freedom of emigration to Israel.
The law on trade entered into force after its signing by the President of the United States Gerald Ford on 3 January 1975 Amendment was included in the document as article 2432 ("Freedom of emigration in trade relations East - West"). Under the sanctions, in addition to the USSR, were China, Vietnam and Albania.

Since 1989 on the amendment of Jackson - Vanik in relation to the USSR was a moratorium in respect of the permit free emigration from the USSR. In 2002, the USA officially recognized Russia as a "country with a market economy". On November 21, 2012, the Jackson - Vanik amendment was officially repealed against Russia by the U.S. Congress.

According to Soviet statistics, the volume of trade between the USSR and the USA in 1975 was 1.6 billion rubles, in 1976 - 2.2 billion, in 1977 - 1.5 billion rubles.

"Grain embargo" of the US
In 1975 between the USSR and the USA the long-term contract according to which the United States undertook to deliver 8 million tons of grain to the Soviet Union was signed. In 1979 the Ministry of agriculture of the USA were allowed to sell the USSR in 1980, 17 million tons of grain in excess of this norm. On January 4, 1980, in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan on December 25, 1979, us President Jimmy Carter announced the termination of the grain contract for the supply of 17 million tons. He promised that the grain intended for the USSR will be bought by the state from American farmers at market prices, after which its surplus will be sent to poor countries and for the production of biofuels. In addition to restrictions on the sale of grain, in January 1980 the issuance of licenses for the sale of high technologies of the USSR was stopped, the export of American goods was limited, all joint cultural and economic activities were frozen, and Soviet ships were prohibited from fishing in us waters.

According to American researchers, the grain embargo has not reached its goal. The USSR purchased grain in Argentina, Canada, Spain, Australia, which did not support the us position. At the same time, the us government spent more than $ 2 billion to buy the products of its farmers. In April 1981, the new us President Ronald Reagan announced the lifting of the embargo.

The boycott of the Moscow Olympics
On January 20, 1980, U.S. President Jimmy Carter announced a boycott of the summer Olympics in Moscow (July 19 - August 3, 1980) as a response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979.

On January 26, this decision was approved by the us national Olympic Committee. In the spring of the same year, the us authorities called on their allies, as well as other States, to support this decision. A total of 61 invited countries participated in the boycott, including West Germany, Japan, China, Canada, Norway, Argentina, etc.

Athletes from a number of countries performed under the flags of their national Olympic committees or under the flag of the International Olympic Committee (Australia, Spain, Denmark, etc.).

In the United States in Philadelphia on July 16-17, 1980 were the so-called Olympic games boycott (Olympic Boycott Games), which was attended by athletes from 29 countries, refused to participate in the Moscow Games. As a response, the Soviet Union and the countries of the socialist camp boycotted the 1984 summer Olympic games in Los Angeles (USA).

The sanctions imposed against the USSR by the administration of Ronald Reagan
During the presidency of Ronald Reagan, relations between the US and the USSR deteriorated, the United States introduced a number of economic sanctions against the Soviet Union. The first package was announced by President Reagan on December 29, 1981. the Formal reason for this was the accusation that the USSR took part in the "introduction of a state of emergency in Poland" on December 13 and repressions "against the Polish people."

The main decision of the Reagan administration was the ban on the supply of American companies in the USSR of electronic and oil and gas equipment. This step was to prevent the construction of the Soviet export gas pipeline Urengoy - Pomary - Uzhgorod, which was attended by European companies and banks (Deutsche Bank, Creusot-Loire, Mannesmann, John Brown Engineering, etc.). The US viewed this project as a threat to its national security, as it led to the energy dependence of Western European States on the USSR.

In June 1982, the US authorities tightened the embargo, extending the ban not only on the products of American firms, but also on the equipment produced by their branches abroad and foreign companies under us licenses. This decision led to a conflict between the US and its Western European allies. In July-August 1982, the West German, French, British, Italian governments supported their producers, declaring the us sanctions illegal. After the European companies delivered in August 1982 oil and gas equipment in the USSR, the United States imposed special sanctions against them (Creusot-Loire, Mannesmann, John Brown Engineerin, etc.). As a result of negotiations with representatives of European governments, us President Ronald Reagan on November 13, 1982 announced the lifting of the embargo on the supply of oil and gas equipment to the USSR. As a result, the construction of the Urengoy - Pomary - Uzhgorod gas pipeline was completed in 1984. However, under the pressure of sanctions, the scale of the project was reduced: instead of the two planned gas pipeline lines, only one was laid, built partly from Soviet materials and equipment.

To compensate for the forced lifting of part of the sanctions against the USSR, Ronald Reagan signed in November 1982 a secret Directive NSDD-66 (National Security Decision Directive; document establishing the main directions of foreign and defense policy). It provided for the expansion of the list of export restrictions against the USSR within the framework of the COCOM, putting pressure on the European allies to allocate loans to the USSR only at market rates, the development of alternative energy to reduce Europe's dependence on the supply of Soviet natural gas.

According to Soviet statistics, the volume of trade between the USSR and the USA in 1979 amounted to 2 billion 837 million rubles, in 1980 it decreased almost twice to 1 billion 502 million rubles. In 1981 and 1982 there was an increase (1.8 billion and 2.2 billion rubles, respectively), in 1983 followed by a drop to 1.9 billion rubles, and in 1984 - again a significant increase to 3.1 billion rubles. In the same period, there was a constant increase in trade between the USSR and the "industrialized capitalist countries". In 1979, the volume of trade between them was fixed at 25.8 billion rubles, in 1980 - 31.6 billion, in 1981. - 35.4 billion, in 1982 - 37.7 billion, in 1983 - 38.3 billion, in 1984 - 40.9 billion rubles.

Sanctions against "Aeroflot"
In December 1981, us President Ronald Reagan announced that Aeroflot would be prohibited from flying in American airspace. This measure came into force on 5 January 1982.


Further sanctions against the Soviet airline were imposed in September 1983, after Soviet air defense systems shot down Boeing 747 South Korean Air Lines, which invaded the airspace of the USSR and did not respond to warning signals.

The Federal aviation administration of the United States closed the airline R-20 for civil aviation, which, in fact, meant the blockade of air traffic with the USSR. Within two months, Aeroflot flights were canceled and the airspace between the US and the USSR was closed, but under the pressure of American airlines that lost one of the shortest routes between Alaska and East Asia, the message was opened on October 2.
Since September 12, 1983, the United States has banned the sale of tickets for Aeroflot flights. The company's offices in Washington and new York were closed, and contacts between American airlines and Aeroflot were prohibited. The resumption of air traffic between the USSR and the USA took place only in April 1986.

https://tass.ru/info/2728444

Last edited by Zimogor; 08-14-2019 at 10:21 PM..
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Russia
1,348 posts, read 625,507 times
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Originally Posted by DKM View Post
The US isn't a big customer of Russia's resources. Other than titanium, we have plenty of the stuff here that Russia is selling to the world. Getting our hands on those resources isn't easier with sanctions so your argument is nonsense.


Huawei was stealing IP among other things. There is nothing absurd about it, we don't need that company here.
Microsoft Admits Humans Listen to Skype and Cortana in Privacy Policy Update

The change comes after Motherboard found that Microsoft hired contractors to listen to some Skype phone calls.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/q...-cortana-skype
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:02 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I agree with you if you are saying Russia does not need Ukraine. Putin's push to get Ukraine to join its "Customs Union" and his violent reaction to Ukrainians rejecting this proves he feels otherwise. Its good news to me (long term) if this view is not shared by his countrymen.
See, you like very much to describe Ukrainians ( and younger generation in particular) as people who "changed a lot since Soviet times," with only "older generation that might remember the old ways."
At that, you somehow imagine that Russians ( and particularly the younger generation) miraculously remained the same as back in Soviet times somehow.
This can't be further away from truth, since you can see plenty of youngsters in Russian cities, who, when stopped on the streets and asked about the current situation in Ukraine, respond with total puzzlement "Ukraine where? Ukraine who?"
To them it's a totally foreign entity, that they can't relate to Russia or their daily lives for this matter.
Then there is another segment of Russians, who firmly believe that Ukraine ( if adjoined to Russia in any shape or form) is a drain on their resources and a "parasite" that used to flourish back in Soviet days at Russia's expense. ( Sounds sort of the same kind of drivel that Wadym posted here earlier, but in reverse. )


And then, of course, there are intelligent Russians.

Now when it comes to Putin and his view of Ukraine as an important part of his plan for the "Custom Union," I am not quite sure why do you consider his appetites as something illegitimate?

After all, back in the nineties America was determined to teach Russia to be a capitalist society ( with all the following consequences,) so now when Putin feels and acts like an ultimate capitalist, what seems to be a problem?

Quote:
I hope Russians feel its a lost cause and would rather settle on the Donbas conflict than keep fighting. This would be welcome to the West too as we would prefer to cooperate and grow Russia as a trading partner. The sooner the better.
To "cooperate" and "grow Russia as a trading partner?"
You mean as an obedient vassal that follows the directives from Washington and is allowed to *trade* in return? And if Russia ( god forbids) decides to act independently in politics, the chain of "economic sanctions" will be yanked at any time?

I think you should forget about it, the sooner the better.

Quote:
I'm afraid though, that the current thieves stealing Russia's resources would not be happy to see Ukrainians obtain a better standard of living through rule of law driven democracy (lest Russians get the same idea). This is really the obstacle to peace...
If I were you, I wouldn't worry about any "woulds" or "shoulds" that are not bound to happen)))

Last edited by erasure; 08-15-2019 at 12:11 AM..
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:17 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,021,534 times
Reputation: 3468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
Microsoft Admits Humans Listen to Skype and Cortana in Privacy Policy Update

The change comes after Motherboard found that Microsoft hired contractors to listen to some Skype phone calls.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/q...-cortana-skype

Guess they'll never admit the spying allegations but Trump can at least admit killing that billionaire pedo or that him putting his closest family on top positions makes eastern europe and even africa far less corrupt.

It's a meme countries at this point, can't wait for the 20s where China will advances even more and

America will spit even more hilarious anti-chinese propaganda. For now it's just anti-russia, anti-eu which is more tolerable.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:55 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
All your arguments it's your conjectures that have been sucked out from finger, because you do not own the information. Somewhere, you heard something, but did not delve into the essence. Or hear only what fits into your alternative history. You did not provide a single iron fact, not a single link to sources confirming your words. All your words are just demagoguery and nothing more.

You say what the first time in history, was introduced sanctions against Russia?
Well, well .. Information under the spoiler. Enjoy it.
You really have no idea what you're talking about. The USSR isn't Russia.

I need a link confirming my words? For 4 years now every government structure in the West has put out mulitple pronouncements linking the sanctions to the war in Ukraine. You can't be this blind to reality... Here's one from yesterday:

President of the Republic of Lithuania Gitanas Nausėda has called on German Chancellor Angela Merkel to maintain sanctions against the Russian Federation until Russian aggression against Ukraine ceases. "The President urged to continue sanctions against Russia until it stops aggression against Ukraine,"

No really, the sanctions aren't a conspiracy of secret lies to try and hurt Russia for other reasons. They are directly a result of Russia creating a war in Ukraine. We know your boss doesn't want Russians to believe this or they might ask him why the need for this war which causes them economic problems. He already gave up trying to pretend the sanctions are good ( although for a few years you believed that nonsense).

Last edited by DKM; 08-15-2019 at 12:20 PM..
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