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Economic slavery has existed for a long time. It is the poorest country in Europe. And the only way to modernization is the arrival of large corporations and the complete reformatting of the political and economic paradigm in the country.
They will arrive, no worries.
They already do.
Now that Chinese labor become more expensive, they will see opportunity to exploit Ukrainians to the fullest, when given the chance.
But you can call it "modernization" if you wish.
In other news - the list of Zelensky's problems keeps on growing it seems.
I won't even touch the issue of internal conflicts within his own party, but the whole "land sales" project pushed by the IMF is meeting the great resistance within Ukrainian society, with Zelensky' s rating plummeting ( that's one of the major reasons.) And this is where BOTH Russian-speakers and Ukrainian speakers are coming to consensus it seems.
So it looks like Zelensky will have to call the "all people referendum" after all.
Donbass is still a big issue as well; I see Youtube is buzzing about the last video ( or rather interview) made by ICTV - a channel that was intended to conduct the "counter-Russian propaganda" in Eastern regions according to Zelensky plans.
This didn't turn out so well, when a random person on the streets of Rubezhnoe ( some 60,000 plus town in Eastern Ukraine) fired back at the journalist, saying that they "live in different Ukraines," and the journalist is nothing but a "warrior of the media front," that propagate lies, since he really didn't witness everything that took place in Eastern Ukraine and thus is not even qualified to talk about it.
To the question what he thinks would happen NOW with Rubezhnoe people, what decision they would make, knowing what happened to controlled by Ukraine territories vs uncontrolled ( i.e. DNR and LNR,) the man responded "had we known everything what followed, the whole of Rubezhnoe would get up back then and moved to the other side (joining LNR and DNR)." In addition he asked "What good the new regime brought to us? It was a nice quiet life, before YOUR people made it here ( from Western Ukraine.) The police is a joke now, they are useless, and instead we have the idiots with automatic rifles "guarding us," the economy is in a dumpster, so what good did it do, your new regime?"
When the young journalist responds "Now Ukraine has a great army for example," the man asks "You think so? So why aren't you yourself serving in this "great army?" His conclusion: "You haven't been in LNR/DNR, you haven't been here during all the events, and most likely you haven't been even in Western Ukraine. All you do is "bla-bla" and spreading lies."
The journalist was apparently so shocked and angered by this interview, that he recorded it all, and then filed a report to the Security Service of Ukraine.
Oh, I think my example was good enough. In short, I want to say this:
If the UK leaves, the EU will be poorer. Leaving of the wealthy UK and replacing it with poor Ukraine will not increase EU's wealth. As Ukraine is a big and poor country, the EU has enough money to support it financially. (Plus other risks like instability, war, confusion with Donbas and borders).
Secondly, in the case of Estonia, when it joined Europe, I had the hope that perhaps local capitalism would be made more human because of it. (Knowing and taking into account that the old West Euro countries are "socialist". But I was disappointed - we still have a here that rapacious version of capitalism ). Thus, membership of a country in the EU does not add practically nothing to the welfare of the ordinary citizen of that country and (apart from the freedom to travel and work within that EU) it does not benefit the ordinary person.
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Originally Posted by erasure
When it comes to Poland, it has been hand-picked by the US I think for their own purpose and "accommodated" in "new Europe", in order to have a faithful vassal in the EU.
Obviously, because of the long history of hostilities between Russia and Poland, Poland served the US well (Poland was behind an attempt to cut Ukraine off of Russia and to push it into the EU,) but overall... No, way too expensive project.
As for Poland, from time to time their government defies the authority of EU and seems it wants even to quarrel with the EU. They seem to be one of the most patriotic/nationalistic peoples on the ground of Europe and seems that they seem to value highly their nationalism. But maybe they are more loyal to the US? Eg some smaller countries, such as Estonia, will never oppose the EU/US, do not argue with any matter and meet all their requirements with the precision of an exemplary schoolboy.
The complete bastard wanna far away to LPR for ever? What he waiting for? What is interesting is that such a video cannot be shot in the LPR because you can end up in Zindane for this.
Such garbage-monkey people are a heavy legacy of the Soviet Union.
Oh, I think my example was good enough. In short, I want to say this:
If the UK leaves, the EU will be poorer. Leaving of the wealthy UK and replacing it with poor Ukraine will not increase EU's wealth. As Ukraine is a big and poor country, the EU has enough money to support it financially. (Plus other risks like instability, war, confusion with Donbas and borders).
Of course the UK departure will change quite a few cards, I will leave it at that.
No, wait, I will still mention one thing; without the UK ( in its current shape and form) the EU will be much less "anti-Russian," keeping in mind current mood in Berlin and Paris.
Anti-Russian Ukraine included in EU could have patch things up from that end, but when one wealthy country is leaving, and another poor one is replacing it - this doesn't add up too; who is going to "fix up" - this poor corrupt country, which is fairly big?
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Secondly, in the case of Estonia, when it joined Europe, I had the hope that perhaps local capitalism would be made more human because of it. (Knowing and taking into account that the old West Euro countries are "socialist". But I was disappointed - we still have a here that rapacious version of capitalism ). Thus, membership of a country in the EU does not add practically nothing to the welfare of the ordinary citizen of that country and (apart from the freedom to travel and work within that EU) it does not benefit the ordinary person.
Your nation doesn't represent any particular interest for anyone ( except for of course being used by NATO and that "fighting Russia" thing. So sorry to say "tough luck" Anhity... Your cheap labor is for grabs by anyone who is willing to use it. )
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As for Poland, from time to time their government defies the authority of EU and seems it wants even to quarrel with the EU. They seem to be one of the most patriotic/nationalistic peoples on the ground of Europe and seems that they seem to value highly their nationalism. But maybe they are more loyal to the US? Eg some smaller countries, such as Estonia, will never oppose the EU/US, do not argue with any matter and meet all their requirements with the precision of an exemplary schoolboy.
All Slavs are basically nationalistic ( except for the ones I suppose that have been under Germans for long time, and lost their identity in many ways.)
And Poles are the "other part of Slavs" that were submitted under the Catholic Church, instead of Orthodoxy (like Russians,) which basically made the major division between these two.
BUT, keep in mind that they are still Slavs, so deep down they share their nationalism with Russians, since I suspect that ORIGINALLY they were one and the same tribe ( or tribes - whichever you prefer.))
And yes, they are more loyal to the US - they are the ultimate US servant in the EU ( as Ukraine would be too.)
"Divide and conquer" as they say.
All Slavs are basically nationalistic ( except for the ones I suppose that have been under Germans for long time, and lost their identity in many ways.)
All Slavic countries, with the possible exception of capitals of Russia maybe (although I am not sure), are very self-centered. They lack that 'global' spirit inherent in Anglo-American countries but maybe even eg in the Netherlands (or maybe even in Denmark or Sweden) For example, I cannot name any reason (other than very powerful personal reasons such as marriage etc.) why I should settle eg in Poland or Slovakia.
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Your nation doesn't represent any particular interest for anyone ( except for of course being used by NATO and that "fighting Russia" thing. So sorry to say "tough luck" Anhity... Your cheap labor is for grabs by anyone who is willing to use it. )
What, do you think I consider my land to be the center of the universe? No. But if you noticed, I just set my nation just as an example because I know it - by accident. In fact, I wanted just to give an example to justify my statement. And that my statement was: Being a member of the EU does not (significantly) improve the quality of life of the inhabitants of that EU country. Also applies to Ukrainians.
All Slavic countries, with the possible exception of Russia, are very self-centered. They lack that 'global' spirit inherent in Anglo-American countries but maybe even eg to the Netherlands (or maybe even to Denmark or Sweden.) For example, to go to live eg in Slovakia without having any connection (job, marriage) to it - I really can't imagine what would be any reason why I should do it.
What, do you think I consider my land to be the center of the universe? No. But if you noticed, I just set my nation just as an example because I know it - by accident. In fact, I wanted just to give an example to justify my statement. And that my statement was: Being a member of the EU does not (significantly) improve the quality of life of the inhabitants of that EU country. Also applies to Ukrainians.
Well here is the thing; Ukrainians are looking specifically AT POLAND when talking about the benefits of joining the EU. They don't take in consideration the Bulgarian experience ( or even Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian.)
They are extremely naive ( or plain dumb) in this respect.
They don't even question where did the Poles go (AND WHY) that Poland doesn't have enough of people any longer to even pick up their own crops.
But they will learn, and sooner than they think I suspect.
So to answer your question - no, I don't think that you "consider your land to be the center of the Universe."
Ukrainians do however, that that's what their *country* is all about)))
Just like children.
All Slavs are basically nationalistic ( except for the ones I suppose that have been under Germans for long time, and lost their identity in many ways.)
And Poles are the "other part of Slavs" that were submitted under the Catholic Church, instead of Orthodoxy (like Russians,) which basically made the major division between these two.
BUT, keep in mind that they are still Slavs, so deep down they share their nationalism with Russians, since I suspect that ORIGINALLY they were one and the same tribe ( or tribes - whichever you prefer.))
And yes, they are more loyal to the US - they are the ultimate US servant in the EU ( as Ukraine would be too.)
"Divide and conquer" as they say.
This I fully agree with. Most Slav people and even Eastern Europeans for that matter are cut from the same cloth. They tend to have a rather similar mindset. In that regard, they remind me of Chinese, Japanese and Koreans.
The Orthodox/Catholic division is another good point. This is one reason why they are in perpetual opposition with one another since 1054.
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Originally Posted by Anhityk
All Slavic countries, with the possible exception of capitals of Russia maybe (although I am not sure), are very self-centered. They lack that 'global' spirit inherent in Anglo-American countries but maybe even eg in the Netherlands (or maybe even in Denmark or Sweden) For example, I cannot name any reason (other than very powerful personal reasons such as marriage etc.) why I should settle eg in Poland or Slovakia.
The global spirit was acquired over time. It was not inherent in either Britain or the US from the very beginning. In fact, the existence of Brexit and Trump, attests to that being a point of friction.
Nevertheless, and this is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of Slavs (including my family), the Anglo world is just flat out better.
I have absolutely no desire to live in any Eastern European country whatsoever and neither do most of the immigrants who come here, despite what they might claim.
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What, do you think I consider my land to be the center of the universe? No. But if you noticed, I just set my nation just as an example because I know it - by accident. In fact, I wanted just to give an example to justify my statement. And that my statement was: Being a member of the EU does not (significantly) improve the quality of life of the inhabitants of that EU country. Also applies to Ukrainians.
As a mentioned in another earlier post, Ukraine is the only Soviet Republic outside of Kazakhstan that is of any real significance. They've got the land, a large population and were both important places during the days of the USSR.
As far as being a member of the EU and it's benefits. Well, that would depend on who you ask. Poland, Hungary and Czechia are often at odds with the rest of the EU.
Oh, I think my example was good enough. In short, I want to say this:
If the UK leaves, the EU will be poorer. Leaving of the wealthy UK and replacing it with poor Ukraine will not increase EU's wealth. As Ukraine is a big and poor country, the EU has enough money to support it financially. (Plus other risks like instability, war, confusion with Donbas and borders).
Secondly, in the case of Estonia, when it joined Europe, I had the hope that perhaps local capitalism would be made more human because of it. (Knowing and taking into account that the old West Euro countries are "socialist". But I was disappointed - we still have a here that rapacious version of capitalism ). Thus, membership of a country in the EU does not add practically nothing to the welfare of the ordinary citizen of that country and (apart from the freedom to travel and work within that EU) it does not benefit the ordinary person.
Well in any case the EU is still a pseudo-political organization and not a country with little influence on your or mine daily life. Make no mistake, I am still anti-eu but more positive on the future than say around 2014 when we got hit by the refugee crisis, the Greek crisis and the brexit vote among other issues.
The thing is countries like yours or Slovenia or even Czechia are doing well compared to others especially in the context of the upcoming decade and as a result you'll see even more anti-eu rhetoric from America or others who won't be happy a country within the EU is advancing.
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His conclusion: "You haven't been in LNR/DNR, you haven't been here during all the events, and most likely you haven't been even in Western Ukraine. All you do is "bla-bla" and spreading lies." 
Your cheap labor is for grabs by anyone who is willing to use it. )
) For example, I cannot name any reason (other than very powerful personal reasons such as marriage etc.) why I should settle eg in Poland or Slovakia.
