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You bring up this fairly elected president for the n-th time now. Your point being? People were on Maiden for 3 months, protesting against him, wanting him to resign. Dude doesn't get it and starts using force then runs away to Russia. The interim gov was selected by the fairly elected MPs and that's why it is internationally accepted as legitimate. A "fairly" elected president is no holy untouchable goat.
Point is; Yanukovich was elected in a fair election. When he was overthrown, this was against the wishes of the millions who voted for him. The new gov started to sign legislation impacting everyone without even waiting for a vote, most critical reflection of this was the anti-Russian language, which really reflected the true intentions of the new gov.
The elections are in 2015, why not wait? Here is why, because their candidate would have not won. The only way for these protesters to gain any control is through force; their Orange revolt was so bad everyone voted for Yanukovich again.
Another avenue, impeachment, existed; all it took was for the parliament to do this through constitutional means, why was it not done? If the protesters wanted the president ousted, why not do it through constitutional means? That means they would contact their parliament member that represents their district, and the member would invoke legislation to oust the president constitutionally. The reason this did not happen is because the protesters never had the representation to do this, which is why they cannot ever field a candidate that can win an election.
As for the West' response; the lack of support for a fair democracy is indeed note worthy, that the West on a whim, will cast aside all democratic norms is frightening. The US doing so shows me that to the US gov, representative democracy is something that "gets in the way", something that should be done away with if it gets in the way of the gov's goals. So with the US, the corporate and interest group influence is even more alerting, as the US gov does not seem to value representative democracy, but values special interest groups more.
The interim gov was not selected fairly, every aspect of it was not by the constitution, and the MP's did so under the threat of violence; at the point of the barrel democracy is not democracy.
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Originally Posted by KuuKulgur
And people who try to siege gov buildings, military air bases etc. with violence, shooting down military helicopters with RPGs and other shenanigans are considered terrorists and should be dealt with as terrorists. They aren't protesting, they just want to take over parts of the country and spread fear among pro-Ukrainien people. Typical terrorist behavior.
Seize buildings...like the Maiden protesters did? Or did you forget that? What do you think the response would be given the president they elected just got ousted? And the new gov, one which is not elected, started signing legislation that impacts everyone, but especially the economy of east Ukraine? And why is the gov sending helicopters against the civilian population? People like you went ape S$%t when a few people in Maiden got killed, but are now all for the new gov sending the military against civilians. The surprise (actually not a surprise) came when Ukraine understood a lot of its own military are against it, but that is expected in any country who's gov has gotten to power via a coup.
You bring up this fairly elected president for the n-th time now. Your point being? People were on Maiden for 3 months, protesting against him, wanting him to resign. Dude doesn't get it and starts using force then runs away to Russia. The interim gov was selected by the fairly elected MPs and that's why it is internationally accepted as legitimate.
A "fairly" elected president is no holy untouchable goat.
Sure, but the "coups" and "revolutions" have tendency to bring civil wars with them. Because - always remember, someone was voting for that president and wasn't fighting for his removal. So coups and revolutions are only part of the deal, not the "done deal" as some would like to imagine it.
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And people who try to siege gov buildings, military air bases etc. with violence, shooting down military helicopters with RPGs and other shenanigans are considered terrorists
"Considered" by whom?
Sure you can understand that what's "recognized" by some won't be recognized by others in this situation.
I'm ashamed to be part of "West" whose secret services and presidents support these criminals
I've seen enough for one day ( particularly watching the live stream from Odessa yesterday,) so I am not going to click on any more links, sorry.
But that's the inconvenient truth - the West is supporting the nationalists, because Kiev's "democratic government" has to seek their help and has to rely on them, albeit covertly, albeit unofficially, while downplaying their role.
It was Pravy Sector directly responsible for the deaths in that building in Odessa.
There are people who survived, who got out of there alive and they are telling what they went through.
They are telling about Pravy Sector throwing molotov cocktails, setting building on fire, explicitly wishing for people to burn there alive, preventing the fire tracks to put out the fire, and finishing off those who managed to escape.
There is a reason why the South-East is putting up a fight, there is a reason why things are not going to work out this time around as American government/EU envisioned it, using convenient familiar schemes.
But for now - I am moderately curious about that investigation that EU is claiming to proceed with into those deaths. Because the inconvenient truth is there as I've said - the only question whether it's going to be finally acknowledged.
P.S. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Those who have ears - they hear.
After the close friend of Dmitro Yarosh ( Pravy Sector) V. Budik has been detained in Eastern Ukraine by the opposition, in his phone they've found the communication with Arsen Avakov, where Budik was reporting to the latter one that he was able to gather 600-800 people for battalion ready to fight.
Arsen Avakov of course is the current Interior Minister, who gives the orders to subdue the "rebels" of the South - East, and V.Budik seems to be a citizen of Georgia.
PS. That picture on the right is a picture of the nurse who was killed by radicals in the car with her three friends.
21 years old, just out of college.
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