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It is an issue when the VP of the US flies to Ukraine, and out comes from it is a sudden invitation for his son to join a large company with interests in exploring resources in areas that are currently under dispute. This is 100% conflict of interest, and if you knew anything regarding the Obama-Biden relationship as detailed by Gates' (former sec of defense) book Duty, you will see Biden is one of the most influential members of Obama's foreign policy team.
The timing of this whole timing is very suspect, and who knows what issues have not been uncovered yet. So while you may be ok with these things, I am sure not, I expect more out of the US gov.
As I see it, politics is the confluence of interests among the most powerful, and conflict of interest occurs when powerful groups oppose each other for the same set of resources, material, spatial, and human. Public opinion is just one trick in their bag to convince the average person to support one side in one way or another.
While I do believe that the US government still offers the best deal for the average person with an entrepreneurial, self-reliant type personality, I, for one, do not expect any more from them.
While most of this long, very entertaining, and sometimes informative thread mostly consists of propaganda slings from either side, does any serious person believe that this conflict is about anything else than agribusiness, oil & gas pipelines, the military/industrial complex, and commercial and military ports?
Okay, now back to the regularly scheduled mutual propaganda slinging for the next 20-30 posts.
For what it's worth, I would like to see more posts about the reality on the ground. For instance, who is in control of border crossings between Russia and Ukraine? I read only one article on the web in English that even refers to this, mentioning in passing that Ukraine central government forces are still in control. However, I find that hard to believe, at least 100%. It seems to me that at least portions of it are porous. Anyone with insights into reality on the ground?
As I see it, politics is the confluence of interests among the most powerful, and conflict of interest occurs when powerful groups oppose each other for the same set of resources, material, spatial, and human. Public opinion is just one trick in their bag to convince the average person to support one side in one way or another.
While I do believe that the US government still offers the best deal for the average person with an entrepreneurial, self-reliant type personality, I, for one, do not expect any more from them.
While most of this long, very entertaining, and sometimes informative thread mostly consists of propaganda slings from either side, does any serious person believe that this conflict is about anything else than agribusiness, oil & gas pipelines, the military/industrial complex, and commercial and military ports?
Okay, now back to the regularly scheduled mutual propaganda slinging for the next 20-30 posts.
For what it's worth, I would like to see more posts about the reality on the ground. For instance, who is in control of border crossings between Russia and Ukraine? I read only one article on the web in English that even refers to this, mentioning in passing that Ukraine central government forces are still in control. However, I find that hard to believe, at least 100%. It seems to me that at least portions of it are porous. Anyone with insights into reality on the ground?
The border is definitely "porous" - open for Russians (or whoever wants to come from that side -like Chechens for example,) now in certain areas of Donbass region. Most likely not at "official checkpoints," but at "backroads." The gaps are definitely there - they've mentioned that on "rebels" site, that they've removed the cordon in some spots after Odessa events from what I remember.
As I see it, politics is the confluence of interests among the most powerful, and conflict of interest occurs when powerful groups oppose each other for the same set of resources, material, spatial, and human. Public opinion is just one trick in their bag to convince the average person to support one side in one way or another.
This is what I stated way back at the beginning of this thread; powerful people/groups/institutions from the West and Russia are using the average Joe on the ground to battle out their self interest, of course under the guise of "patriotism", but reality is while those on both side will be getting killed and hurt and living the consequences of the economic turmoil, the wealthy who directed all of this will be living the life of luxury, unaffected.
I said early both (or more) groups needs to stop fighting each other and toss the Putin's Tymoshenko's, McCain's, corporate influences, etc out of power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
While I do believe that the US government still offers the best deal for the average person with an entrepreneurial, self-reliant type personality, I, for one, do not expect any more from them.
I agree, but what I do expect is for those in charge not to sue foreign policy and their own position to advance their owns elf interest over that of the country, this is what is happening now, this is what has been happening for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
While most of this long, very entertaining, and sometimes informative thread mostly consists of propaganda slings from either side, does any serious person believe that this conflict is about anything else than agribusiness, oil & gas pipelines, the military/industrial complex, and commercial and military ports?
Russia has long has had a theory that the West has been trying to isolate them, slowly chipping away at allies and eventually surrounding Russia, and eventually trying to split Russia apart to take advantage of its resources in an Africa type way; fractured states with western propped dictators favorable to the west for the purpose of extracting resources.
The Ukraine situation is almost a verification of this theory with Russia, this is why they made the Crimean move they did, it was a serious matter of national security. Biden's son getting appointed over there sure as heck did not help matters at all, neither has the obtuse nature of the West's stance on Ukraine's army tactics against civilians.
The West though they had central Asia but lost it, they will try again, they have been trying to get Ukraine for 23 years now. The West needs all of Ukraine, not just the dirt poor, non-industrialized west part of it. The West values the industrialized east, and I think the West was a but shocked at all it all went down, they thought it would just be like the Orange revolt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
Okay, now back to the regularly scheduled mutual propaganda slinging for the next 20-30 posts.
Yes, that is annoying, I wish it would stop; I can only ask the mods not to close the thread, but go ahead and delete the useless posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002
For what it's worth, I would like to see more posts about the reality on the ground. For instance, who is in control of border crossings between Russia and Ukraine? I read only one article on the web in English that even refers to this, mentioning in passing that Ukraine central government forces are still in control. However, I find that hard to believe, at least 100%. It seems to me that at least portions of it are porous. Anyone with insights into reality on the ground?
I talk to relatives there, they live near Denpropetrovsk; they said it all quiet there except the rumor mill and the check points. The media there is controlled by some oligarch (maybe he also is the mayor?) and broadcasts some of the strangest BS regarding the situation. Everyone seems to be fixated more on the Odessa building fire incident than what is going on in the east. Of course the uncertainty is there, especially regarding the economy, so far no impact on daily life.
This is common about everywhere, even in the US. The political parties go through and vote for members of their party who are not present. The term for this is "ghost voting".
Kolomoyskyi: Hi.
Tsarov: Hi.
Kolomoyskyi: Where are you at the moment? Still there?
Tsarov: Yes. I’m still here.
Kolomoyskyi: How are you getting on?
Tsarov: Quite OK.
Kolomoyskyi: Well. I guess there’s some huge trouble. There was a Jew from the Dnipropetrovsk Jewish community. He got killed.
Tsarov: What happened there?
Kolomoyskyi: Well, some Jew from Dnipropetrovsk Jewish community got killed. And I’m in synagogue at the moment.
Tsarov: What was he doing there?
Kolomoyskyi: Well, it doesn’t actually matter what he was doing. It’s your head that costs so much now. ****, they give huge money for your head.
Tsarov: Mine?
Kolomoyskyi: Yours. They give million dollars for it. Yes. And they said they would be searching everywhere. So I just said it. I wanted to reveal it for you that you’d better lead it on in Moscow. Stay where you are just. Don’t leave anywhere.
Tsarov: There’s one thing I wanted to tell you. In Africa there are some…..
Kolomoyskyi: Tomorrow they will be just catching your people here.
Tsarov: There’s such…. some poison in Africa
Kolomoyskyi: Look, I care a **** what they’ve got there in Africa. Stop it just. Stop telling stories. Now, I’m telling you that there was praying in synagogue before Shabbat. We were praying for that Jew killed in Mariupol…. **** it.
Tsarov: And so….
Kolomoyskyi: And they said it was Tsarov who’s to be blamed for everything. ****. And people close to you will be the first in the list of much wanted tomorrow. So, prompt them they’d better hot foot it out of here…. We’ll be hanging them right in the square…. **** it. Yea, I put it to you that it is necessary to say to Markov not to arrive here, in Ukraine. On no account! Hallo!
Tsarov: Don’t try to call me up. Don’t make calls to me, Ihor!
Kolomoyskyi: I shouldn’t telephone you, eh? All right! Go for it! Bye.
Tsarov: Go for it! That’s that!
I see, here is a much better translation of what took place there..
Kiev can't forgive him the reminder of the role Bandera was playing in Volhynya massacre, apparently.
And so, probably, the E.U.
Tsarev announced that he and his supporters created the Union East named "Novorossiya". Dnepropetrovsk was included to this union too.
But there is another intersting thing in the talking between Noginski and Ian (Ian B. Epstein, Honorary Consul of Israel in the Crimea). Noginski realizes that the ukranian revolution might end a new Holocost for Jews in Ukraine. Look at our candidates for the post of President. The main ones are persons having Jewish roots (Poroshenko, Timoshenko, Dobkin, Rabinovich) and I think that mr Kolomoysky and Yatseniuk don't leave that list.
Tsarev announced that he and his supporters created the Union East named "Novorossiya". Dnepropetrovsk was included to this union too.
But there is another intersting thing in the talking between Noginski and Ian (Ian B. Epstein, Honorary Consul of Israel in the Crimea). Noginski realizes that the ukranian revolution might end a new Holocost for Jews in Ukraine. Look at our candidates for the post of President. The main ones are persons having Jewish roots (Poroshenko, Timoshenko, Dobkin, Rabinovich) and I think that mr Kolomoysky and Yatseniuk don't leave that list.
Well, that's a.. stretch.
Whatever these two were discussing in their private conversation - it's their unfounded fears and speculations, not more than that.
I feel sorry however, that Tsarov found himself in the midst of these conspiracies, because he comes across as a person who doesn't care much about the whole "Jewish question."
And although I am aware that practically all these people in Ukraine with money and power are of Jewish origin, I am not quite sure what kind of problem do you foresee in this whole situation?
I am not quite sure what kind of problem do you foresee in this whole situation?
We have three power:
one - gang of Kolomoysky (Poroshenko, Klichko, Turchinov,Yatseniuk etc);
two - Batkivshina (Timoshenko and her supporters), who is much less than ones;
three - pro- russian block, who refuse from "whole ukraine 1991-2013" if I may say about our country.
But there is Svoboda which is a real nazi party which got less all benefit from revolution than other party. If Timoshenko was be able to agree with Tyahnibok, they would create a new part of revolution. And I don't know which main slogan will be used at that virtual stage, maybe "kill juws with an eye to real Ukrainians get the power in thier country".
But then they should give the east to Russia protection. I think Timoshenko may agree with that screenplay for her real power in Ukraine.
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