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Old 08-20-2014, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,758 times
Reputation: 64

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Several other countries in Eastern Europe with similar structure did already join.
USA is very much interested in a stable Russia, I think they would welcome the process.

We need clear conditions and controllable treaties and measures to slowly overcome mistrust.
I think it can be done. It's just the history that is still in the heads, but history doesn't apply
since things have changed and won't revert.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:17 AM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,618,183 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Then what do you do with everything what's defined as "Russian culture" - the
classical Russian writers, musicians, painters. If all their cultural icons are
not European, then what are they?And if they are European after all, then
how can you say that Russia is not "European" country?
Ah now we get to the crux of the matter! It points to the continual strife between East and West as defined by 'Europe' and 'Rossiya". In the post-war period, the latter simply was never part of any 'European' conglomeration or consistently wanting to experience 'closeness' with European states. Oh she tarded and all but Rossiya always had kept its distance and more important mostly found itself at odds when interacting and contributing to the concurrent upheaval that occurred in their societies. Was it Russian exceptionalism? I'm not sure. Rossiya indeed looked to Europe for their cultural icons but that asked the question how confident were they then in their cultural bed?

Today Western culture has spread globally. If anything people around the world seek to emulate it.....not 'Russian' culture. I am not a sociologist to know exactly the reasons why that is occurring but it's fact. This has to have an effect on the Ruissian mind.Frankly, it is a great obut she doesn't apperar to be mining the benefits that should come with it..thus what I see is resentment. A killer that pervades any entry that Rossiya wants to make particularly through any doors through Europe. It's lurker and as they say in modern usage....a 'buzz-killer'.

And finally I do not think the Russian mind is flexible enough to deal with Europe. She's lived with the autocracy too too long as her czars and history attest. And that development is precisely why she cabnnot be considered a 'European' country. She's been out of the loop for a long long long time.
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:49 AM
 
26,788 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
Several other countries in Eastern Europe with similar structure did already join.
USA is very much interested in a stable Russia, I think they would welcome the process.
Not sure what countries exactly are you talking about, but small countries of the former "Eastern block" - even they had different history of the institution of the "private property" comparably to Russia, as poor as they were. Not to mention that they are small comparably to Russia and could be easily absorbed by other EU countries.

Quote:
We need clear conditions and controllable treaties and measures to slowly overcome mistrust.
If the mistrust has very reasonable and explainable ground, why should it be fought?
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,758 times
Reputation: 64
because of the better future.
The grounds are only historical, I explained it above.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:53 AM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,618,183 times
Reputation: 3146
^

Kind of makes me think of Kipling's lines:

'Oh East is East and West is West and the twain shall never meet'.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:11 PM
 
26,788 posts, read 22,556,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Ah now we get to the crux of the matter! It points to the continual strife between East and West as defined by 'Europe' and 'Rossiya".
There was no "continual strife" between "East" and "West" as you are trying to imagine, Travric.
Russian aristocracy was well-integrated in the "West" and Russia was one of the major players in European theater starting from the 1700ies. The "continual strife" you are talking about was a strife WITHIN Russia itself, in the mind of her thinkers and philosophers.

Quote:
In the post-war period, the latter simply was never part of any 'European' conglomeration or consistently wanting to experience 'closeness' with European states.
What "war" - WWII?
Guess what Travric, history doesn't start with occupation of Hungary by the USSR in post-war period.
Russia made a conscious decision to stay away from the major hubs of technology and monetary systems because she found herself in semi-colonial situation while dealing with them. And that's what Stalin was bent on hell to fix. So Russia stopped being "European conglomeration" after the 20ies, ( i.e. the civil war,) - not after the WWII as you think.
Remember this kind of stuff or you are not even aware of it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZZZnh8jLrU


Quote:
Oh she tarded and all but Rossiya always had kept its distance and more important mostly found itself at odds when interacting and contributing to the concurrent upheaval that occurred in their societies. Was it Russian exceptionalism? I'm not sure. Rossiya indeed looked to Europe for their cultural icons but that asked the question how confident were they then in their cultural bed?
They were very confident in their "cultural bed" - but they were questioning the future of Europe, to make the long story short. Those were purely philosophical matters ( still are, although some are saying that there is no such thing as "Russian philosophy," and that Russian philosophy is nothing more but the offshoot of German philosophy, the continuation of it.)

Quote:
Today Western culture has spread globally.
American culture you mean?
Because I don't see the global spreading of German culture, or French, or Belgian for this matter.
Aren't they part of the "West?"

Quote:
If anything people around the world seek to emulate it.....not 'Russian' culture.
But American culture is asking for it; America wants to be popular around the world.
Russia doesn't worry so much about her culture being globalized; neither other European countries. They leave it up to connoisseurs.

Quote:
I am not a sociologist to know exactly the reasons why that is occurring but it's fact. This has to have an effect on the Ruissian mind.Frankly, it is a great obut she doesn't apperar to be mining the benefits that should come with it..thus what I see is resentment. A killer that pervades any entry that Rossiya wants to make particularly through any doors through Europe. It's lurker and as they say in modern usage....a 'buzz-killer'.
Sorry I am not even sure what you are talking about here.

Quote:
And finally I do not think the Russian mind is flexible enough to deal with Europe.
Define "to deal" please.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:19 PM
 
26,788 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
^

Kind of makes me think of Kipling's lines:

'Oh East is East and West is West and the twain shall never meet'.
And neither they should "meet" for long-long-long time.
Someone has to keep "West" at bay and to control it.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:22 PM
 
26,788 posts, read 22,556,454 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
because of the better future.
The grounds are only historical, I explained it above.
And I explained the "grounds" are not only "historical" at this point ( that wouldn't be a problem,) but very practical for the moment being.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,758 times
Reputation: 64
you are trying to redefine the grounds as cultural, while I think they are mainly
still based on the historical experience.

But on a history that gives a non-useful experience
since that history won't come back due to big technological changes.

The Russian culture is outdated. The wrong side of history.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 256,758 times
Reputation: 64
my concern is bioengineering, bioterrorism. I think that in some years/decades we will be able
to create "powerful" pathogens and pandemic. We need an international effort to deal with that.
And international consensus.
I do not see so much the old peace-war threat in Europe. Countries are no longer planning
to invade other countries, starting war out of pride, strategical considerations, preemptive strikes,
complicated assistance treaties, borderline disagreements. (I hope).
The challenges are global. Pandemics, global warming, energy, control of nukes, religious fanatism,
overpopulation, separatist dictators ...
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