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Of course, some of the pro-Russian people posting on this thread may really believe the things they are saying.
You don't have to be a Russian sympathizer to see the truth. All you have to do is believe in the fact that people have the right to run their own Country. The fact that Russia is one side does not change the balance between right and wrong. Ukraine had an elected Government. That's a fact. Certain factions did not like the decisions made by this elected Government. They resorted to violence and overthrew the elected Government. They are not a legitimate Government, no matter what Country recognizes them. That's fact, not fiction. A portion of the population decided it did not recognize the coupe and new self established rulers, so they declared Independence. That's their right to do so, and should have been recognized by the rest of the World. When this has been done in the past, with Croatia, Bosnia, and other Countries, the US was one of the first to give its blessings, yet now, they oppose it, because its Russia. All facts, no matter how you tell the story. We have no dog in that fight, and need to keep our noses out of it. You can not force people to accept an illegitimate Government, no more than one could expect Americans to accept a self proclaimed Government after it took Washington by force. What's so hard to understand.
I can not understand how a person becomes so "Brainwashed" that they actually think all the Citizens of Ukraine should rally behind a self installed Government they never voted for. If one suggested that they should do the same, if it happened here, they would say you where nuts and a coward, for not willing to fight for your rights. I don't get it.
Has the Debaltseve pocket been surrounded yet? Up to 8,000 Ukrainian troops are trapped within ... not a good sign
For all intents and purposes the pocket is closed. M103 highway is under artillery observation from several towns and hills from the reservoirs to within a mile of the city. It's mined both by artillery and manually as of last night. The amount of troops is most likely exaggerated, only 3 to 5 k in the pocket. Most civilians are out of the area but there are still some there.
The UAF launched a counter offensive out of Artimovsk, I think the NAF is ready for it because they've been moving artillery into the region for a week.
I really think the Ukies are screwed.
NAF draft got 4500 from Lugansk alone. A soup kitchen in Lugansk, twice. You'd almost begin to think that it was terrorism.
Of course, some of the pro-Russian people posting on this thread may really believe the things they are saying.
Face it MOS your side is getting it's ass kicked all over the place.
Anyway FYI. I'm no fan of Putin, I think he did a good job until recently. At the end of the day though he's just another politician to me and to me they're all equally worthless wherever they suck the blood of people in this world.
That being said I see what is going on here. I know what happened last winter in Kiev. I know the history of that part of the world and the history of my own country, America.
Last edited by Rozenn; 02-10-2015 at 02:19 PM..
Reason: Personal attacks
You don't have to be a Russian sympathizer to see the truth. All you have to do is believe in the fact that people have the right to run their own Country. The fact that Russia is one side does not change the balance between right and wrong. Ukraine had an elected Government. That's a fact. Certain factions did not like the decisions made by this elected Government. They resorted to violence and overthrew the elected Government. They are not a legitimate Government, no matter what Country recognizes them. That's fact, not fiction. A portion of the population decided it did not recognize the coupe and new self established rulers, so they declared Independence. That's their right to do so, and should have been recognized by the rest of the World. When this has been done in the past, with Croatia, Bosnia, and other Countries, the US was one of the first to give its blessings, yet now, they oppose it, because its Russia. All facts, no matter how you tell the story. We have no dog in that fight, and need to keep our noses out of it. You can not force people to accept an illegitimate Government, no more than one could expect Americans to accept a self proclaimed Government after it took Washington by force. What's so hard to understand.
I can not understand how a person becomes so "Brainwashed" that they actually think all the Citizens of Ukraine should rally behind a self installed Government they never voted for. If one suggested that they should do the same, if it happened here, they would say you where nuts and a coward, for not willing to fight for your rights. I don't get it.
so why is russia sending 18-20 year old "kids" to war?
You know, I've noticed on Youtube videos that Donbass opolchenie on average has much more men in their thirties and forties than younger kids.
It's Kiev that sends a lot of 18-20 years old kids with minimum military preparation to the battle field. They are the ones who end up dead first, so rebel's commandment is aware of it and when captured, those are the first ones to be sent home to parents.
That's why one of the hapless fathers posted a video on Youtube to Zakharchenko with a plea personally to release his son, who survived the ordeal in Donetsk airport when he learned that he was among the captured.
And that's why the author of this "draft" video ( post#7605 here) - a Russian from Siberian city said that he was against "gravization" ( game of words here in Russian with "mobilization") of the Ukrainian guys, who were only yesterday helping his mother around the house ( a lot of Ukrainians were ( still are) working in Russia, since they couldn't find jobs in Ukraine.) "And today they are forced to participate in military actions because of the orders of their politicians. I wanted to share with them my doubts. Ukrainians are told all year long that there were no losses but no one is asking what happened to people from the previous three mobilizations. We live in the 21st century, is it that difficult to check the information?" - he wonders.
In few days the video got over 17,000,000 hits and as the author says himself on Youtube site, "I simply want to bring the situation in Ukraine closer to the world at least for one day."
Amok im really starting to think that you are being paid for being here and spreading cheap russian propaganda ))
is this your full time job? because you are here all the time
And what do we see here? video speech clearly does not match. Display nothing to say. Blah blah about the forces that are not. all that we can show this checkpoint Ukraine. It's just like the Chechens, who do not, but they are killed by the thousands.
And that's why the author of this "draft" video ( post#7605 here) - a Russian from Siberian city said that he was against "gravization" ( game of words here in Russian with "mobilization") of the Ukrainian guys, who were only yesterday helping his mother around the house ( a lot of Ukrainians were ( still are) working in Russia, since they couldn't find jobs in Ukraine.) "And today they are forced to participate in military actions because of the orders of their politicians. I wanted to share with them my doubts. Ukrainians are told all year long that there were no losses but no one is asking what happened to people from the previous three mobilizations. We live in the 21st century, is it that difficult to check the information?" - he wonders.
In few days the video got over 17,000,000 hits and as the author says himself on Youtube site, "I simply want to bring the situation in Ukraine closer to the world at least for one day."
P.S. I'm sorry there were over 1,700,000 hits on that video (it was too late in the evening.)
I'm sure Ukrainian government hated it; the draft is not going all too well, particularly in Eastern provinces ( I see in Kharkov the quota has been fulfilled only at 17%.)
This video was a very effective message for everyone, not only draftees, apparently.
so why is russia sending 18-20 year old "kids" to war?
Sending 18 to 20 year olds to war? Is that the best you can do? What's the age that you would use, to qualify sending a man out to kill others? Is there an age that's acceptable to kill others?
I am really starting to think that you are being paid for being here and spreading cheap anti rights propaganda ))
is this your full time job? because you are here all the time. (like you said)
Most folks could not care less what Russia does in its own Neck of the woods, and if it wants to support people who reject a self appointed leader, that's what they should do, and any other Country would do. If the US can support the self proclaimed Government there, then Russia has the same right to support its people living there, and those who do not support a self established Dictatorship that took Control by force, not by elections. Its up to the people living there to decide what they want, not us, or Russia. Is pretty evident that the self imposed rulers have not won the hearts and minds of the Majority.
You can hate Putin and call him whatever you like, but he is doing exactly what we are doing and what we would do in his position. National Security is not reserved for us alone. Putin and Russia have a lot at stake here, and he is making sound decisions for Russian National Security.
The biggest problem in this ordeal is that too many Americans still have the "Commie" attitude that we where brainwashed with at a young age, and if you did not have a Democracy, you where monsters and pagans that where evil. Those days are gone. People are people, and have their own rights, that should not be dictated by other Nations or Self imposed Governments. Exporting Democracy has killed more people in the World than anything else has ever done.
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