Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High PointThe Triad Area
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I think for mid size cities the pursuit of height should be secondary to infill. GSO and WS should worry more about getting all the parking lots filled with buildings that have ground level retail versus a single skyscraper. Put another way the Triad cities would be better served with five buildings that have 5 stories all with ground level retail versus a single 25 story tower. Cities like Asheville and Greenville don’t have skylines any more impressive than ours but what they do have are vibrant streets due to lots of retail supply. Most of the towers in Winston and Greensboro have awful plazas surrounding them that kill activity anyway. Both cities are getting there and have made massive progress in the last decade.
I think for mid size cities the pursuit of height should be secondary to infill. GSO and WS should worry more about getting all the parking lots filled with buildings that have ground level retail versus a single skyscraper. Put another way the Triad cities would be better served with five buildings that have 5 stories all with ground level retail versus a single 25 story tower. Cities like Asheville and Greenville don’t have skylines any more impressive than ours but what they do have are vibrant streets due to lots of retail supply. Most of the towers in Winston and Greensboro have awful plazas surrounding them that kill activity anyway. Both cities are getting there and have made massive progress in the last decade.
Also I believe you can have your cake and eat it too. There is room for both street level low-rise development along with skyscrapers. In addition, skyscraper developments are not like the skyscrapers of the 1980s with soaring office towers and bland plazas that only get used by office workers at lunch. Today developers are building mixed-use towers which still have that street level retail and residential or hotels. This is what we will see with Roy Carroll's Carroll at Bellemeade South. You can maximize density when you build vertical which translates to more people and more activity. There is a reason why uptown Charlotte has so much activity. Thanks to skyscrapers, Charlotte has thousands or workers and residents living downtown. And because of the highrise hotels, many tourists and business travelers walk the streets to shop, dine and be entertained. In Greensboro's case, we would max out very quickly if all the city built were spread out low-rise developments because of the size of downtown. There only so many available properties downtown for development.
But building up costs more, so you have to be able to charge rents that justify the cost, and land prices have to be high enough to essentially force building up. The economy has to have large, profitable companies that can can afford the more expensive office space, and create jobs that pay wages high enough to allow their employees to afford the more expensive housing. That is not G'boro right now. In the future? I guess we'll see.
But building up costs more, so you have to be able to charge rents that justify the cost, and land prices have to be high enough to essentially force building up. The economy has to have large, profitable companies that can can afford the more expensive office space, and create jobs that pay wages high enough to allow their employees to afford the more expensive housing. That is not G'boro right now. In the future? I guess we'll see.
Greensboro is on the cusp of that to some degree already. Wages are slowly increasing and we are seeing developers build high end apartments downtown that have higher leasing rates than other parts of the city. We are not going to see a bunch of large office towers getting built unless large companies start moving downtown. I think mixed-use is the way to go for Greensboro because you can build a small amount of office space and combine it with residential. Mixed-use towers also lessen the risk for the developer. The key is balancing office and residential leasing rates in such buildings. The developer has to figure out what office users will pay versus apartment rental leasing rates. The number of apartments and the amount of office space also factors into the equation. Developers can add more apartments but that gave to be careful not to overstock in their developments. That's why it's been difficult to build highrises in the past because it was hard to make the numbers work. But now there are more and more people wanting to live downtown and be willing to pay higher leasing rates. Developers are also building more studio apartments because they can build more units in a smaller space.
That is a wonderful picture of downtown provided by GSOCitizen. In a few years, with the completion of the Tanger Center, Westin hotel, Hampton Inn, and the Carroll Bealmeade South development, the updated picture will be even more impressive. I think that the future growth in downtown GSO will include mainly 8 - 12 - 15 story buildings unless we can lure a major corporate headquarters. I definitely would like to see someone build a 75,000 to 100,000 sq ft conference/convention center along with more residential. All of the above, along wth the existing hotels, restaurants, entertainment, parks, museums, etc. will increase the activity downtown.
Greensboro is on the cusp of that to some degree already.
No it isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78
That's why it's been difficult to build highrises in the past because it was hard to make the numbers work. But now there are more and more people wanting to live downtown and be willing to pay higher leasing rates.
Its about economic reality, not your interpretation of people's desires.
Its about economic reality, not your interpretation of people's desires.
When you have residential occupancy levels well over 90% in downtown Greensboro, that tells the story, not my interpretation. Downtown Greensboro has the highest occupancy level in the city. It doesn't matter if the people living in the apartments have high paying Durham type jobs or make a good living working in a factory. Demand drives the development and right now downtown Greensboro is a hot market for apartments. A few of the downtown apartment complexes have a waiting list if that tells you anything. CityView apartments expanded three times because of the demand.
When you have residential occupancy levels well over 90% in downtown Greensboro, that tells the story, not my interpretation. Downtown Greensboro has the highest occupancy level in the city. It doesn't matter if the people living in the apartments have high paying Durham type jobs or make a good living working in a factory. Demand drives the development and right now downtown Greensboro is a hot market for apartments. A few of the downtown apartment complexes have a waiting list if that tells you anything. CityView apartments expanded three times because of the demand.
The conversation is in regard to high rise buildings, remember?
The conversation is in regard to high rise buildings, remember?
Yes which is why it appears that Carroll may be doing just that. Not to mention the future Westin Hotel which will be about the height of the Guilford Building. Let's not forget about Center Pointe as well.
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