do Maryland residents consider themselves as "Southerners?" (Baltimore: plantation, trailer)

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

The Washington suburbs during that time period actually leaned more neturally/towards the Confederate side. The city itself didn't. The difference between Southern sympathizers in Maryland and those in Indiana/Pennsylvania/Maine/Ohio is that Marylanders were actually part of the South(most of it anyway), and I feel that they still are today. Obviously it's changed a lot since that time(as has the rest of the South), and I think we can all agree that Southern Maryland & the shore are at least part of the (Coastal) South, but the state by and large has Southern roots.

Yeah, I agree that the majority of the Shore (the Southwestern part anyway) has its "southerness," but Southern Maryland, particularly Charles and Calvert, are not the same counties they were 50 years ago. The region has changed radically and has better integrated itself into the Washington Metro Area.

[westsideboy]

There were no "washington suburbs" in 1860. The counties we call that today were agricultural areas similar to the rest of the state.

Furman: Presidential Election of 1860 (http://alpha.furman.edu/~benson/docs/pres1860.htm - broken link)

This map shows clearly that Maryland supported Southern candidates in 1860. The split in Maryland before the war was between those that wanted to allow peaceful succession and those that wanted war to accomplish it. The tide didn't turn pro-union in most of Maryland until the other Southern States took up arms against the federal government.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

There were no "washington suburbs" in 1860. The counties we call that today were agricultural areas similar to the rest of the state.

Correct. The Washington suburbs as we know them today were farmland up until the 50's when they started buying out and building.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by cpterp

Yeah, I agree that the majority of the Shore (the Southwestern part anyway) has its "southerness," but Southern Maryland, particularly Charles and Calvert, are not the same counties they were 50 years ago. The region has changed radically and has better integrated itself into the Washington Metro Area.

I don't see how this changes the perceived Southerness of the area, though. Look, feel, etc. -- these are not things that just go away. I think it should be embraced, and not turned into Anywhereville, USA.

[westsideboy]

A quick correction to my previous post. What I meant to say that was Maryland in 1860 was largely split between those that wanted to allow secession of the rest of South and those that wanted Maryland to secede as well. These opinions were represented by the opinions of Bell and Breckenridge. The northern and western Maryland population only became "pro-union" when the Confederate States restored to violence to accomplish their means.

I think you make a good point Keyser. Do we not consider the suburbs of Atlanta "the south" just because much of their heritage has been built over?

[Giantwon]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Correct. The Washington suburbs as we know them today were farmland up until the 50's when they started buying out and building.

LOL........you mean up into the late 70's

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by cpterp

Yeah, I agree that the majority of the Shore (the Southwestern part anyway) has its "southerness," but Southern Maryland, particularly Charles and Calvert, are not the same counties they were 50 years ago. The region has changed radically and has better integrated itself into the Washington Metro Area.

So by judging your comment that will mean that Majority of Virginia , North Carolina(Raleigh-Durham Triangle and Charlotte), Georgia(Atlanta), and Florida(Orlando and South Florida) is not part of the South due to those areas losing their Southern Culture.....

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Correct. The Washington suburbs as we know them today were farmland up until the 50's when they started buying out and building.

The same can be said about Atlanta and speaking of the ATL this is their 30 Year Anniversary of the opening of the MARTA Subway....

[cpterp]

Okay, for arguments sake, lets say that Maryland was as Southern as Alabama before the Civil War, that there may still be "southern" areas on the Eastern Shore and Southern MD (the latter still up for debate), and that even though the state fought for the Union/North and refused to secede all the citizens hated it, but the fact is that the state at large, in 2009, is dominated (economically, culturally, politically) by Central MD which I'm sure everyone can agree is "northeastern."

Quick fact: Yesterday I found out the United Methodist Church grouped Maryland in its Northeast Conference along with Delaware, DC, and West Virginia. Yet another organization that groups MD in the NE/Mid-Atlantic.

[springheel24]

Try asking natives from Boston or Gloucester or Brattleboro whether they consider Maryland part of the North; 10 out of 10 people would probably escort you to the local health clinic for evaluation with a history book in tow (hyperbole). The same might happen if you asked a local from Montgomery or Biloxi if they considered Maryland part of the South.

Maryland is a melting pot of both regions but on balance seems to have more of a southern influence. I, and all of my colleagues who have recently relocated here from Boston (to Annapolis in my case) are constantly pointing out how different Maryland is from the North. Setting aside the clear historical leanings for a moment… It is the subtleties that make Maryland so different in my mind. Examples include the slower speed at which people walk, the comparatively young age at which people get married and have children, the architecture, the accents, the questions asked during casual conversation with strangers, the fried chicken for sale at convenience stores, etc. If you grew up in Maryland, these indicators may not be that apparent - which may be why so many locals in the Annapolis area incorrectly assume that their town is ‘northern’. When we left Boston, I was told to reside in Annapolis because it would remind me of home… not so much. It is plausible that many who have relocated here from deeper south may have similar symptoms of culture shock.

This seems to be a common topic for debate among people within this region. I find it fascinating how shocked some Marylanders (and D.C. residents) are to the idea that they are not considered ‘northern’ by those in the North. In the end, I imagine that Maryland will always be best described as a tweener; not quite southern enough to be considered ‘southern’, nor ‘northern’ enough to be considered Northern. Maybe it’s time to embrace the Mid-Atlantic tag and call it a day?