do Maryland residents consider themselves as "Southerners?" (Baltimore: university, legal)

[Chris-Kim]

To me the difference between "Southerners" and "Northerners" is....

Southerners are nice to your face but talks about you behind your back.

Northerners are snorty and talks about you behind your back.

Thus, to me Marylanders are Southerners.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Wow, look at those cheap cigarette prices! I could post plenty of pictures of Confederate flags being flown here in Allegany County and we are supposed be Maryland's "Northern part."

I wasn't really posting because of the Confederate flag, it was the "the South starts here message" I was getting at. To tell the truth I've seen more Confederate flags in PA and WV than I have in MD. I would say Maryland could be divided up between Northern, Southern, and Appalcahian. Western MD seems more "Appalachian" than Northern to me, and looks just like the WV Panhandle and Pennsylvania. Central MD, Southern MD, and the upper Eastern Shore are the "Northern" parts, while the lower Eastern Shore could be considered "Southern."

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Because The Mason-Dixon Line is along the Maryland/Pennsylvania Boarder not the Potomac River....

Again Southerners need to get off the Civil War BS and accept theFACT taht Maryland is a Southern State....

Okay, but if you're saying people need to get off the "Civil War BS," the Mason-Dixon Line was is older than this country and was only used as the dividing point between North and South at the time of the Missouri Compromise (slavery was illegal north of the line). Post Civil War Maryland is Northern.

[westsideboy]

Cpterp, I would be interested to know how much time you have spend in any part of Maryland other than the central suburbs and how many people you know from these places.

I agree that Appalachia is the best regional label for Western Maryland, but pre-civil war it was had the least slaves of any region, the highest vote totals for Lincoln in 1860(although still pitifully small.) I wouldn't say it is the most "northern" region of Maryland today though.

[TheTornado]

Maryland is a geographically diverse state and because of that, the answer to your question is, "IT DEPENDS!"

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Cpterp, I would be interested to know how much time you have spend in any part of Maryland other than the central suburbs and how many people you know from these places.

I agree that Appalachia is the best regional label for Western Maryland, but pre-civil war it was had the least slaves of any region, the highest vote totals for Lincoln in 1860(although still pitifully small.) I wouldn't say it is the most "northern" region of Maryland today though.

Honestly I haven't seen that much of Western Md, except when I've driven to Pittsburgh. I have seen a lot of Southern MD though, and been to the shore a whole lot of times. But per your second paragraph, that's exactly what I'm saying. Western MD was the staunchest opposition to Maryland seceding to join the Confederacy, and neighbouring WV split from VA beacuse of it.

[westsideboy]

The reason I ask is that people's whose families date back generations in a area retain a kind of generational knowlege of their heritage and identity. It is really easy to say "all of that pre-1860 stuff doesn't count," but for the people's whose families have been here longer than that, it does. The stories that are told, the infrastructure that survives, the behaviors and patterns learned from family and friends extends back in a unbroken tradition to those earlier times. Heritage and tradition didn't stop 100, 50, or even 25 years ago. Today's generation has as much legitimacy claiming the self-identity and culture of our ancestors as our grandparents.

This tradition is stronger and more visible in a rural or old urban area than a new shiny suburb, but even someone who shops at a stripmall, drives a Toyota, and speaks with a "TV accent" is a product of somewhere and can carry their family's tradition if they try hard enough.

I don't think many current residents of our state understand this. Their parents or grandparent came from somewhere else, they live in areas surrounded by people from all over the country and the rest of the world. Most surburbs try pretty hard to whitewash away the local culture to make the transplants feel like they are living in a "new community." No doubt these new Marylanders have the ability to start their own traditions and create a new identity for themselves. That livestyle has merit and appeal to many. Suburbia allows people to start anew, break free from the past, and be whatever they want people to think they are. It isn't for me, but it is for some people.

To me, this thread shows that native Marylanders can, and do, claim legitimate identity with the North and the South. The right to claim either or a little of both is our birthright and our state's identity is no more or less than the identity of its citizens.

[Bobilee]

Originally Posted by cpterp

Western MD was the staunchest opposition to Maryland seceding to join the Confederacy, and neighbouring WV split from VA beacuse of it.

Just a historical correction, WV was the creation of a few Unionists in WV and the US Congress. This is from Russell Weigley's "A Great Civil War", pg. 55. Mr. Weigley taught history at the US Army War College.

There was good reason for the President and Congress to be feel concern about the methods that led West Virginia to statehood, apart from the constitutional niceties. Even less effort toward rational, moderating direction from Washington had gone into West Virginia than into Missouri. Here was yet another instance of the war's running out of control, creating its own momentum, with the predictable unhappy consequences. In much of the new state, the Confederacy in fact dominated throughout the war, all the more firmly supported by a local population resentful of attempts to alter its state allegiance against its will. Except in the Ohio River counties, the new state could enforce its writ only under the bayonets of the Union Army.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The reason I ask is that people's whose families date back generations in a area retain a kind of generational knowlege of their heritage and identity. It is really easy to say "all of that pre-1860 stuff doesn't count," but for the people's whose families have been here longer than that, it does. The stories that are told, the infrastructure that survives, the behaviors and patterns learned from family and friends extends back in a unbroken tradition to those earlier times. Heritage and tradition didn't stop 100, 50, or even 25 years ago. Today's generation has as much legitimacy claiming the self-identity and culture of our ancestors as our grandparents.

Good point, but remember that the pop. of MD in the mid 1800's was around 650,000, about 15% of todays population. Unlike many other larger states, the majority of Maryland (especially Central and Southern) has been subject to major immigration. Western MD is probably the only "untouched" part of Maryland left, and as you were saying earlier historically that was Maryland's most "Northern" region.

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by cpterp

I wasn't really posting because of the Confederate flag, it was the "the South starts here message" I was getting at. To tell the truth I've seen more Confederate flags in PA and WV than I have in MD. I would say Maryland could be divided up between Northern, Southern, and Appalcahian. Western MD seems more "Appalachian" than Northern to me, and looks just like the WV Panhandle and Pennsylvania. Central MD, Southern MD, and the upper Eastern Shore are the "Northern" parts, while the lower Eastern Shore could be considered "Southern."



Okay, but if you're saying people need to get off the "Civil War BS," the Mason-Dixon Line was is older than this country and was only used as the dividing point between North and South at the time of the Missouri Compromise (slavery was illegal north of the line). Post Civil War Maryland is Northern.

Again get off of that Civil War BS.

It never fails for most Southerners to fight tooth and nail to Deny the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State.

I am soo tired of hearing Sotherners treating Mryland like some Foreign Step Child just because Maryland was the Only Southern State that didn't fall in line with the rest of the Southers in support of keeping Africans as Slaves and Joining the Confederatcy.

It don't matter what you or any Southerner say, Maryland is and Always Will be a SOUTHERN STATE PERIOD..............................

END OF DISCUSSION...............





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/US_map-The_South_Modern_.png (broken link)

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Again get off of that Civil War BS.

It never fails for most Southerners to fight tooth and nail to Deny the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State.

I am soo tired of hearing Sotherners treating Mryland like some Foreign Step Child just because Maryland was the Only Southern State that didn't fall in line with the rest of the Southers in support of keeping Africans as Slaves and Joining the Confederatcy.

It don't matter what you or any Southerner say, Maryland is and Always Will be a SOUTHERN STATE PERIOD..............................

END OF DISCUSSION...............

Yeah, that's a convincing argument. I don't understand what the photos are for. I think everyone knows where the M-D line is, and we've already discussed why it isn't the North South dividing line. Oh, and I'm going to give up on that "Civil War BS." From now one the the second most important war in this country's history didn't happen, there was no such thing as the Confederacy, Reconstruction is a myth, and nothing changed after the war. I noticed Maryland is striped on that map. Looks like it's striped on this one as well (as well as VA for some reason):