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Russia was NOT under any immediate military threat. PERIOD. This was Russia's War of Choice. There is NO ambiguity here. You can't just invade an internationally recognized sovereign nation because you don't like they way they are conducting their affairs. Russia was under NO military threat.
Oh, you mean like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya? Or, before that, Grenada, Korea, Viet Nam … ? How about Haiti, or Somalia? How about enough hypocrisy to choke a hippopotamus?
Dude, we were not under any immediate threat when Khrushchev was installing those ballistic missiles in Cuba, either. It was the long term strategic threat we were not prepared to accept, and so we acted to prevent them from completing the installation, rather than wait until they were operational, and therefore impossible to get rid of.
Ukraine joining NATO posed a long term strategic threat to Russia, along with those dozens of bioweapons laboratories we were operating on Ukrainian soil. Russia chose to act now, rather than sit back and watch Ukraine become a NATO member, and receive their complementary nuclear arms, supervised by NATO controllers.
The more you go on with this nonsense, the more you sound like a teenager keyboarding from his parents basement.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 02-03-2023 at 08:49 PM..
You've got to be brainwashed not to see that he is one.
Ah, Bevis and butt head. Two peas in a pod you two are.
No, the brainwashed believe that that hair sniffing pedophile dementia patient pretending to be President, actually beat Donald Trump in the 2020 election. The same nitwits that think Ukraine has any chance of defeating Russia, without resulting in nuclear war between the US and Russia.
And the real psychopaths think we can win that nuclear war.
Russia was NOT under any immediate military threat. PERIOD. This was Russia's War of Choice. There is NO ambiguity here. You can't just invade an internationally recognized sovereign nation because you don't like they way they are conducting their affairs. Russia was under NO military threat.
Please read and view:
Maiden revolution with Yanukovich to Poroshenko. Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador Hyatt.
Ukrainian war/civil war in Luhanks & Donestk (Donbass) in 2014
Crimea 2014: Stolen or taken back after 250-300 years? Only warm water port that could go to NATO.
Putin's speech in YT in 2008 in Munich:
Putin's speech via transcript for free on the internet in Bucharest in 2007.
Note Putin's reference to 1999 - Kosovo annexation by NATO, and go further.
Note, 1990, the German entry in to NATO.
Note Gorbachev's comments in the late 90s on YT for free.
We do not have to agree with Putin; we don't have to agree with the Russian narrative on NATO.
But we should acknowledge that it does it exist......
When the USSR fell apart, it came out of Russia that the USSR did the murders.
Yes, it came from the USSR but it was a lie.
7.65mm Parabellum used in murders, Russians had nothing of 7.65 caliber. But Germans had. Also bodies were too fresh when examined .
... the murder by Stalin of 20,000 Polish officers at Katyn Forest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios
I had a good old friend who lost an uncle there. The man was a priest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval
It was a fake concocted by Germans and spun during USSR falling apart .
The victims were in the custody of the Soviet NKVD in 1939.
The claim you make here is absurd. I am sure you are retelling the defensive propaganda spit out by the old Soviet government at the time the news of the atrocity came out later in the war, but you are an adult and don't have to check your mind at the door.
Your post is the equivalent of holocaust denial.
I know you love the land of your birth but you lose all credibility when you repeat such nonsense.
The victims were in the custody of the Soviet NKVD in 1939.
The claim you make here is absurd. I am sure you are retelling the defensive propaganda spit out by the old Soviet government at the time the news of the atrocity came out later in the war, but you are an adult and don't have to check your mind at the door.
Your post is the equivalent of holocaust denial.
I know you love the land of your birth but you lose all credibility when you repeat such nonsense.
Soviets formed fighting Polish Army https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_...antry_Division
Why then they murdered Polish soldiers? I examined other evidence and considered times that info came out in Russia. I was not in Russia then. I concluded that execution if Polish soldiers was a lie I have been in Russia twice in my life, when I was 3 and the second time when I was 25 to obtain exit visa, exit from that damn place called the USSR. I was born in Lithuania my wife is a Pole - German mix. My friends and I hated Soviets, we did not listen to Soviet media but Voice of America, BBC, e.t.c. We lived there and were anti-Soviet.
I did not find the truth here, in the West, but more fake. I concluded East and West is the same film, positive and negative and the truth being elsewhere.
I know about other German executions just across the my house where I lived in Lvov...And by NKVD too. The winner writes history.
Soviets formed fighting Polish Army https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_...antry_Division
Why then they murdered Polish soldiers? I examined other evidence and considered times that info came out in Russia. I was not in Russia then. I concluded that execution if Polish soldiers was a lie I have been in Russia twice in my life, when I was 3 and the second time when I was 25 to obtain exit visa, exit from that damn place called the USSR. I was born in Lithuania my wife is a Pole - German mix. My friends and I hated Soviets, we did not listen to Soviet media but Voice of America, BBC, e.t.c. We lived there and were anti-Soviet.
I did not find the truth here, in the West, but more fake. I concluded East and West is the same film, positive and negative and the truth being elsewhere.
I know about other German executions just across the my house where I lived in Lvov...And by NKVD too. The winner writes history.
The Katyn massacre certainly did happen. It was the targeted killing of officer, generals, intelligence personal, etc, not ordinary soldiers. The USSR hated competition in lands they conquered, so they thought nothing of disposing them.
The USSR even imprisoned some of the Finnish high command after WW2. They set up their own version of the Nuremberg trials, just so they could lock up the Finnish high command and members of government... All for the "crime" of defending their own nation.
The USSR was a disgraced empire and a joke from it's inception. They were known for their petty ruthlessness and disregard for life all throughout their existence, and little else. If they weren't brutalizers, everyone would know them primarily for their incompetence and poor standard of living. Maybe that's why they behaved the way they did... Being laughed at by most of the civilized world for most of their existence probably sent their leadership into a perpetual fit of rage.
And just like then, everyone mocks and laugh at Russia today. Their men are being wasted for a pointless war of aggression that will never benefit them. Their women hate everything about life in Russia and dream of leaving. Nobody wants children there. Who would want to offer their flesh and blood for the glory of a tyrant???
Russia has always been a dysfunctional place and always will be. There is nothing to "understand" about Russia. If one wants to "understand" Russia, simply get drunk off cheap vodka every day of your life for the next decade and then you can begin to see the world through the eyes of a Russian. But why would anybody want to?
The Katyn massacre certainly did happen. It was the targeted killing of officer, generals, intelligence personal, etc, not ordinary soldiers. The USSR hated competition in lands they conquered, so they thought nothing of disposing them.
The USSR even imprisoned some of the Finnish high command after WW2. They set up their own version of the Nuremberg trials, just so they could lock up the Finnish high command and members of government... All for the "crime" of defending their own nation.
All for the “crime” of defending their own nation? Dude, you desperately need to take your study of history beyond the University of Wikipedia, because you seem to have missed some critical facts about WW II and Finland.
The “crime” in the eyes of the Soviets, as well as the rest of the world marginally familiar with history, was Hitler’s unprovoked INVASION of the Soviet Union, after having signed a non-aggression treaty with the Soviets. Finland joined Hitler’s forces and participated in that invasion. This invasion btw, resulted in the deaths of between 20-30 Million Russians who were the ones “defending” their nation, not the other way around.
While the Jewish Holocaust seems to have captured most of the world’s attention and sympathy, and still has it, Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union killed at least 4 times the number of Russians than the Jews suffered in the death camps.
I’d say that goes a long way toward explaining why Finland’s Military and Government leaders were handled in the manner they were. They were, by definition, war criminals. The truth is, the Soviets had very good reason for hanging every last one of them, trial or no trial. The disposition of the Soviets at that moment in time was understandably quite hostile, given the massive casualties the invasion caused to them. No country involved in WW II came remotely close to the number of Russians killed in the War.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
The USSR was a disgraced empire and a joke from it's inception. They were known for their petty ruthlessness and disregard for life all throughout their existence, and little else. If they weren't brutalizers, everyone would know them primarily for their incompetence and poor standard of living. Maybe that's why they behaved the way they did... Being laughed at by most of the civilized world for most of their existence probably sent their leadership into a perpetual fit of rage.
And just like then, everyone mocks and laugh at Russia today. Their men are being wasted for a pointless war of aggression that will never benefit them. Their women hate everything about life in Russia and dream of leaving. Nobody wants children there. Who would want to offer their flesh and blood for the glory of a tyrant???
Russia has always been a dysfunctional place and always will be. There is nothing to "understand" about Russia. If one wants to "understand" Russia, simply get drunk off cheap vodka every day of your life for the next decade and then you can begin to see the world through the eyes of a Russian. But why would anybody want to?
This is such a declaration of ignorance, it’s hardly worthy of a response. It’s actually rather offensive, and says more about you than you should want to expose. Seriously. I’m saddened by the extreme ignorance suffered by so many of my fellow Americans, but it does go along way to explain our less than stellar reputation in the eyes of so many others around the world.
But don’t confuse the former Soviet Union (that hasn’t actually existed for decades) with today’s Russia. Two completely different countries, and two entirely different era’s. But there is a tremendous amount of ignorance within western societies regarding Russia which you have so masterfully exhibited here.
The truth is Communism was what Russians suffered through, and was responsible for the failure of the Soviet Union, just as it has failed everywhere else. Today’s Russia is a functional Republic, and frankly more resembles a Republic now, than the corporatized and socialized United States, if truth be told.
Lots of people would be astonished if they were to be taken to Moscow, blindfolded and not told where they were, because they would discover a city that knows no equal across the entirety of Europe, particularly as it relates to modernization, cleanliness, low crime, and general prosperity of the citizenry, and is more cosmopolitan than Paris or London, and far safer.
If you were to do a side by side, and compare the citizens of Moscow, with citizens from San Francisco or anywhere else in US, we would look like a bunch of hobos by comparison, and almost 3rd world, with the amount of crime, infrastructure decay, homelessness, and drug addicts on full display. I promise you, you will find no “poop maps” in Moscow, like they have in San Francisco!
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