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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-03-2023, 05:48 PM
 
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Meh, the louder Russia screams about nukes, the worse they are doing.

It's pretty much that simple. When they were rolling through the Ukraine a year ago not a peep, now they're pushed east and screaming about nukes.

I personally admire the Russians given past history, that being said, the fact that their leadership is doing these things is a sign of deep failure on their part.
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Old 02-03-2023, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,756,642 times
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Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Some psychopaths want this war badly...On both sides.
Like I said it was Putin that unleashed the hounds of hell. Nobody put a gun to his head to invade Ukraine.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:01 PM
 
15,197 posts, read 8,730,647 times
Reputation: 7560
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Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
"You can't understand Russia with your mind, With yards cannot measure: She has a special — One can only believe in Russia."
Fyodor Tyutchev 1866
The unfortunate truth is, and it gives me no pleasure in saying it, Russia is the good guy at this moment and time. The very short sighted, simpleton opinion that because Russia invaded Ukraine, automatically places them as the aggressors and therefore in the wrong. But that just doesn’t account for the entire complex scenario that is playing out.

For the past 20 years, Russia has been continually attempting to establish a cooperative relationship with the west, and even expressed a willingness to join NATO at one point. What Russia has rightfully contended is that the continued expansion of NATO in the bordering regions of Russia and the former Soviet satellite states isn’t acceptable to Russian security interests, which they certainly are correct, given the west’s continued demonization of Russia, as if it were still the Soviet Union, which is not the case.

The truth is, Russia has been extremely patient and flexible diplomatically, for a very long time, in the face of a growing NATO presence in and around the surrounding regions, which does represent a security threat, since the very nature of NATO is a military alliance of several nations created to fight and win a war with the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. So NATO is an Russian adversary, not a friend.

Russia has long insisted that this continued expansion of NATO is a destabilizing and provocative action, which Russia cannot allow to include Ukraine. Ukraine is where the Russians have drawn the line in the sand, and they meant it. They weren’t bluffing. Just as we once drew a line in the sand in Cuba. We said to the USSR, no way. We will not allow you to maintain an offensive military installation off the shores of the United States in Cuba, period. And we approached the brink of war because of it.

Ukraine is to Russia, what Cuba was to the US. And that is the entire reason for the Russian military operations in the Ukraine. This was not Russia invading Ukraine for territorial expansion, but a response to NATO expansion along their border.

The fact is, weeks before the war began, Russia made an offer to Ukraine to take no military action against her, and to guarantee Ukraine’s security and territorial integrity, with only one condition … that Ukraine not join NATO, and remain a neutral country. The offer was rejected.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:15 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,195,157 times
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Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Like I said it was Putin that unleashed the hounds of hell. Nobody put a gun to his head to invade Ukraine.
It was not Putin, it started much earlier. I blame Putin for not being smarter and became a part of this, really, civil war.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,956 posts, read 9,683,909 times
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Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Nobody wanted this war...it pretty much shocked the world. It was like reading news in the 19th century. Putin unleashed the hounds of hell. They are his to deal with.
Nobody wanted this war but Europe still funded it via buying Russian gas and oil.

Trump warned Germany and they just laughed. From 2018:
Quote:
Trump accused Germany of becoming ‘totally dependent’ on Russian energy at the U.N. The Germans just smirked.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-just-smirked/
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:20 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,195,157 times
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Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Nobody wanted this war but Europe still funded it via buying Russian gas and oil.

Trump warned Germany and they just laughed. From 2018:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-just-smirked/
Trump just wanted to sell US LG in Europe, so, they (Europeans) went around...

Last edited by G.Duval; 02-03-2023 at 06:28 PM..
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:26 PM
 
15,197 posts, read 8,730,647 times
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Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
That's quite a bit. Can you provide some sources on this?
I could, but you’d just declare the sources illegitimate or unreliable, because your mind is already made up.

Your last comment that “nobody wanted this war” says it all. The truth is, someone wanted this war, or there wouldn’t be one, right? Now, who actually wanted it? That’s the question.

And the answer can be found in who rejected the offer to avoid the conflict right from the beginning, by simply agreeing not to join NATO, which is a military alliance hostile toward Russia? That would be Ukraine, or more accurately, the US, who controls their puppet boy Zelensky.

That is the same Ukraine who has repeatedly insisted that they adamantly refuse to entertain any form of peace negotiations with Russia, in response to several Russian overtures. Zelensky went so far as to issue an executive order making it illegal to even advocate for peace negotiations.

The bottom line, the US and NATO apparently wanted this war, otherwise there wouldn’t be one. And it didn’t start in 2022 …. it started in 2014 when the US Sate Department and CIA fomented the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, and installed their puppet regime, and the tensions continued to mount over the next 8 years, as the US backed regime engaged Ukrainian military, and particularly the Nazi Azov arm in the ethnic cleansing of Russian civilians in the Donbas region.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,756,642 times
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I could, but you’d just declare the sources illegitimate or unreliable, because your mind is already made up.

Your last comment that “nobody wanted this war” says it all. The truth is, someone wanted this war, or there wouldn’t be one, right? Now, who actually wanted it? That’s the question.

And the answer can be found in who rejected the offer to avoid the conflict right from the beginning, by simply agreeing not to join NATO, which is a military alliance hostile toward Russia? That would be Ukraine, or more accurately, the US, who controls their puppet boy Zelensky.

That is the same Ukraine who has repeatedly insisted that they adamantly refuse to entertain any form of peace negotiations with Russia, in response to several Russian overtures. Zelensky went so far as to issue an executive order making it illegal to even advocate for peace negotiations.

The bottom line, the US and NATO apparently wanted this war, otherwise there wouldn’t be one. And it didn’t start in 2022 …. it started in 2014 when the US Sate Department and CIA fomented the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, and installed their puppet regime, and the tensions continued to mount over the next 8 years, as the US backed regime engaged Ukrainian military, and particularly the Nazi Azov arm in the ethnic cleansing of Russian civilians in the Donbas region.
Please...No the answered can be found in who massed their forces on the border and illegaly invaded an internationally recognized sovereign nation. That's pretty straight forward...don't ya think. That is what is unique about this whole affair...it's total lack of ambiguity.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:31 PM
 
15,197 posts, read 8,730,647 times
Reputation: 7560
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Like I said it was Putin that unleashed the hounds of hell. Nobody put a gun to his head to invade Ukraine.
Wrong, NATO has continued to put a gun to his head, repeatedly. He just decided that enough was enough, and that continued inaction would only further compromise Russian security the longer he waited.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:38 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,195,157 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I could, but you’d just declare the sources illegitimate or unreliable, because your mind is already made up.

Your last comment that “nobody wanted this war” says it all. The truth is, someone wanted this war, or there wouldn’t be one, right? Now, who actually wanted it? That’s the question.

And the answer can be found in who rejected the offer to avoid the conflict right from the beginning, by simply agreeing not to join NATO, which is a military alliance hostile toward Russia? That would be Ukraine, or more accurately, the US, who controls their puppet boy Zelensky.

That is the same Ukraine who has repeatedly insisted that they adamantly refuse to entertain any form of peace negotiations with Russia, in response to several Russian overtures. Zelensky went so far as to issue an executive order making it illegal to even advocate for peace negotiations.

The bottom line, the US and NATO apparently wanted this war, otherwise there wouldn’t be one. And it didn’t start in 2022 …. it started in 2014 when the US Sate Department and CIA fomented the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, and installed their puppet regime, and the tensions continued to mount over the next 8 years, as the US backed regime engaged Ukrainian military, and particularly the Nazi Azov arm in the ethnic cleansing of Russian civilians in the Donbas region.
Then they come out and say that Minsk agreements were just a show to give Ukraina time to build up their military
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