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I learned to wear a minimizer by 14. DD's are a problem when you're in high school. I used to wear a minimizer and a baggy t-shirt to avoid the unwanted attention.
Tell me about it. I had similar experiences.
It can be a Catch-22 for girls, I think. We have guys like goodheathen who are all complaining and "dissatisfied" because those uncooperative women won't make themselves attractive for the men. Then you have the root cause for some (if not a lot of) the "unattractiveness"—men and boys who harassed, leered, groped, intimidated, creeped-out, etc., girls in their early years, so much so that the girls resorted to wearing unflattering clothes, hiding their bodies, and sometimes gaining weight.
Now those self-same girls are being "blamed" for male "unhappiness." And we are beseeched to think of the poor men, and we are told that we are not being sympathetic enough towards them.
Well, maybe they need to work from within. Maybe they need to work on policing themselves, instead of expecting the women to do it all. I don't know how you expect 12, 13, 14 year old girls to have the maturity to handle the sexual harassment, the intimidation, the creepy overtures. If guys are unhappy with the way things are, they need to work on themselves first. If they do that, they'll be fewer girls who are trying to "hide" their attractiveness. Win-win, right?
That's what we've been saying all along though, isn't it?
Unwanted early attention might be a factor in why many of the more shy, potentially nicer females later become uninviting to men. But I don't see that as something males can do much to fix (horny, insensitive teens follow their instincts). It's more a thing for schools to address, via discipline and dress codes. Personally the only time I ever witnessed it was by a teacher, and some of us later mentioned it to an adult.
Also, women who went through that as teens frankly need to do what they can to get over it. And women who get unwanted attention from men have, in my opinion, probably only one possible fix, which is to figure out how they can present themselves in a way that's less creep-friendly without being sexless. I will speak out against most cold-approaching and other misguided male behaviors online, but I don't know if guys will listen.
Unwanted early attention might be a factor in why many of the more shy, potentially nicer females later become uninviting to men. But I don't see that as something males can do much to fix (horny, insensitive teens follow their instincts).
Maybe if these horny teens were raised better, or had more peer pressure, they wouldn't be quite so obnoxious. I don't think it's a matter of "boys will be boys." They're not all little apes. They need to start remembering that.
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Also, women who went through that as teens frankly need to do what they can to get over it.
For their own sake, sure, but not for the sake of the poor men, who shouldn't have been behaving like little apes in the first place. And sometimes the trauma takes a while to fix. Maybe years. By that time they might be old shriveled up crones of 26! The best years are behind them!
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And women who get unwanted attention from men have, in my opinion, probably only one possible fix, which is to figure out how they can present themselves in a way that's less creep-friendly without being sexless.
They shouldn't have to dress in any particular way to avoid creeps, because these guys should STOP BEING CREEPS. But apparently since the creeps will be creeps, and we can't expect that to stop, then I say the girls should do whatever they want to feel comfortable. If that means dressing sexless, that's what it means. Blame it on the creeps who won't stop being creeps.
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I will speak out against most cold-approaching and other misguided male behaviors online, but I don't know if guys will listen.
Well, again we're at an impasse, because why on earth should women, who have already been traumatized by harassment and creepy treatment, listen to the plea to "think of the men" when it's obvious that the men won't stop being creeps, and will ignore any requests or pleas to do so?
That's where women need to remind themselves of the negativity bias: bad experiences with men mask the fact that most men aren't bad. (As exemplified by the almost-nil creepy male behavior I've personally observed.)
That's where women need to remind themselves of the negativity bias: bad experiences with men mask the fact that most men aren't bad. (As exemplified by the almost-nil creepy male behavior I've personally observed.)
You're not a woman, though. It hasn't been directed at you, so it might be easier to miss.
All that needs to happen is a few guys, here and there but on a regular basis, being creepy and gross. Women will start to act and dress differently after that. They can't exactly think, "Well, only 5% of the time do I get groped or leered at or followed, or have something vile said to me, that's not enough reason to start making myself 'sexless'!" That's not how it works.
These experiences can be very traumatic, particularly when they start when a girl is very young (and often that's when they start). Why on earth should they continually put themselves out there when the harassment can come at any time, and will not stop?
Unwanted early attention might be a factor in why many of the more shy, potentially nicer females later become uninviting to men. But I don't see that as something males can do much to fix (horny, insensitive teens follow their instincts). It's more a thing for schools to address, via discipline and dress codes. Personally the only time I ever witnessed it was by a teacher, and some of us later mentioned it to an adult.
Also, women who went through that as teens frankly need to do what they can to get over it. And women who get unwanted attention from men have, in my opinion, probably only one possible fix, which is to figure out how they can present themselves in a way that's less creep-friendly without being sexless. I will speak out against most cold-approaching and other misguided male behaviors online, but I don't know if guys will listen.
You want women to "fix" everything that is "wrong" with us, but men, the poor men, just can't help themselves because their horny. At some point men (even young men/teens) have to take responsibility for their actions. I was verbally attacked by males throughout my teen years. You want women to "get over it" and feel sorry for the men?? Unreal.
That's where women need to remind themselves of the negativity bias: bad experiences with men mask the fact that most men aren't bad. (As exemplified by the almost-nil creepy male behavior I've personally observed.)
If only 5% of men respond negatively to an attractive woman, how many times per day does she get harassed, groped, cat called, whistled at, whatever? How many times per day are we required to put up with this behavior because you prefer us to dress attractively? I learned quickly to hide my bustline under a baggy shirt because even once per day is too much for this kind of behavior.
The only thing I had going for me when I was younger was I was built but I learned to hide it because it did not get me the kind of attention I wanted. I didn't want to be treated like a piece of meat by even 1% of the men out there. I'm not required to put up with this because you like to look. I didn't start dressing up until I got married. Then I felt somewhat safe because of the ring on my left hand.
It can be a Catch-22 for girls, I think. We have guys like goodheathen who are all complaining and "dissatisfied" because those uncooperative women won't make themselves attractive for the men. Then you have the root cause for some (if not a lot of) the "unattractiveness"—men and boys who harassed, leered, groped, intimidated, creeped-out, etc., girls in their early years, so much so that the girls resorted to wearing unflattering clothes, hiding their bodies, and sometimes gaining weight.
Now those self-same girls are being "blamed" for male "unhappiness." And we are beseeched to think of the poor men, and we are told that we are not being sympathetic enough towards them.
Well, maybe they need to work from within. Maybe they need to work on policing themselves, instead of expecting the women to do it all. I don't know how you expect 12, 13, 14 year old girls to have the maturity to handle the sexual harassment, the intimidation, the creepy overtures. If guys are unhappy with the way things are, they need to work on themselves first. If they do that, they'll be fewer girls who are trying to "hide" their attractiveness. Win-win, right?
That's what we've been saying all along though, isn't it?
Correct. If the attention we got for dressing attractively was positive, we'd be more likely to do it.
You want women to "fix" everything that is "wrong" with us, but men, the poor men, just can't help themselves because their horny. At some point men (even young men/teens) have to take responsibility for their actions. I was verbally attacked by males throughout my teen years. You want women to "get over it" and feel sorry for the men?? Unreal.
I know.
I'm sick of being told that the guys won't listen to pleas to stop acting like apes, won't be sympathetic to women, can't be held accountable because of their raging hormones, and bottom line, won't change. But they'll blame the women and demand that they change.
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I had similar experiences.
