How long before she starts paying for dates? (older, kiss, American)

[lottamoxie]

If someone wants to spend time with me and is interested in romance, then it's really up to them to pursue and make it happen. They're the one who is interested. I may or may not become interested at some point in developing a romantic relationship with them.

And if their best move in courtship is some form of "yeah, go grab a pizza and a six pack and come over to my place and we can watch the game ..." then, no thanks.

That is not my definition of a date and I don't care what year it is. It could be 2025 and it's still not a date in my book.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

My thinking exactly. Men paying for dates is an outdated custom that made sense 50 or 100 years ago when men worked in the workforce and most women became housewives after marriage. If everything else is equal, why should things like paying for dates not be?

Originally Posted by penguin_kernel

Yeah it's 2012 and we are equal right? We split 50/50 down the middle. You want to be cute and courted and all that? That's nice, go find someone else then..I am not having any of that

You guys do know that you are actually free to do whatever you want when it comes to dating - right? I mean - it's not like there are any laws forcing you to do one thing or another. If you don't want to pay - don't. If you want to pay - do. If you want the woman to split it with you - tell her that. If she doesn't react well to that - oh well, I guess she's not the right one for you so it doesn't matter - right? I mean honestly - the purpose of dating is to find the right person - and if you only want someone who will split everything 50/50 - then obviously someone who won't go dutch is not the right person. So - at the end of the first date - ask her to pay for her share. You actually have the right to do that! So quit your whining and do what you need to do to find happiness!

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by th3vault

Paying? Never.

Contributing? Variable, but most women at least offer after a few weeks or so. Still, many women will never contribute on dates/nights out ever, even after marriage. Not neccesarily a sign of a gold digger, some women just have a firm cultural belief that men should always pay for dates/nights out.

I'd be much more concerned about a gold digger if she wanted me to pay for her individual expenses (clothes, gas etc) when we are just dating or refused to contribute to significant joint expenses in a full relationship.

Originally Posted by DRGirl

Exactly! In my culture men take charge in asking you out and picking up the tab. Now that I live in America I don't mind cooking or shipping in after we are exclusive, but not before. Last year I went in A LOT of dates, and I never paid for anything. Men just grabbed the tab as soon as it hit the table. I don't understand why is such a big deal in this forum. Based on my experience, most men prefer to pay.



It depends. I don't offer unless I really mean it but I have friends who have offered and when the guy took the offer, they never went out with him again. Chicks are too complicated, that's why I only date men

Originally Posted by onihC

I suppose in your culture women are in charge of cooking and cleaning, right?



Why wait until months or years have passed to be exclusive and maybe then offer to split the tip or something? Why wait so long? This is something that seems to be common in the west.



At least you admit it . Hey, lucky you .

Onihc - So... why did you jump on the girl who said that she wanted the guy to always pay but not jump on the guy that wanted to always pay... So - it's okay for a man to want to pay but not okay for a woman to want a man to pay?

Like I've said before - it's about finding the right person. These two have the same expectations when it comes to who pays. If you want the woman to pay or split it with you - find someone like that.

I'm still surprised at what a huge issue this seems to be. It has never been an issue for me in any of my relationships or with any of the guys I was dating. Funny.

[Yzette]

Originally Posted by lottamoxie

If someone wants to spend time with me and is interested in romance, then it's really up to them to pursue and make it happen. They're the one who is interested. I may or may not become interested at some point in developing a romantic relationship with them.

And if their best move in courtship is some form of "yeah, go grab a pizza and a six pack and come over to my place and we can watch the game ..." then, no thanks.

That is not my definition of a date and I don't care what year it is. It could be 2025 and it's still not a date in my book.

I'm the same way, 100%. Plus, whenever I offered to chip in, I was invariably told to "put that away." There are still gentlemen in the world who understand that when they ask for a date, they pay for it.

However, if I am interested, the third date will be my idea, if he doesn't beat me to the suggestion first. I wouldn't ask unless I planned to pay, but you know what? A good 80-90% of the time the man would still say "put that away" when the check came and I took out my wallet. I would not expect that, and I would bicker with him about it. Whether he wins depends on how skilled he is at debating. Even then, I'd find a way to chip in at least a bit, like if we decide to walk around town afterward and wanted to stop in for a drink, I'd absolutely refuse to let him pay for it, and I'd do it in such a way as to avoid ruffling any masculine pride involved--when the bartender puts the drinks down, I'd say, "No way. You just got that wonderful dinner. I am getting this." Hey, you never know what's going through a guy's head and if he's worried that he'll look like a cheapskate in front of the bartender. Plus, it's a statement of appreciation.

Once part of a couple, then I'll try to be as equitable as possible. However, if it's his idea to go somewhere fancy, it's on him, even now, just like it would be on me if the idea was mine. But honestly? Five years into the relationship, my SO still picks up the tab most of the time, first because it's usually his idea to eat out, second because I'm a stressed-out sole proprietor with all the ups and downs that go with it. When he says, "What do you want to do for food," unless I'm exhausted, I'll offer to whip something up. If I'm exhausted, I'll say, "I have a coupon for [insert restaurant] or we can get 20% off at Friday's with my Optimum card."

I dunno. The whole issue of who pays for what has never been a huge mountain to scale for me. I can't even claim it's my age group, because I've found that even younger men (like my SO) understand that he or she who asks, pays until there's a commitment to coupledom. I think it's just a reflection of how people were raised and their own past history with dating. (Bitter guys keep tabs.) Anyway, it's just one of those social gambles. If you can't afford to pay, don't put your chips on the table.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by lottamoxie

If I have to pay (either dutch or the entire thing) on a 'date,' then it doesn't feel like a date so much as going out with a friend

Isn’t that what a date is about? Getting to know someone, be friends, and later on along the road things might go up to another level or not. If you go out with a guy for dinner, will the food taste different if the activity is labeled “date” or not?

I remember while in the USA that there was a movie that I wanted to see. A friend called me and asked what I was doing later that night and I told her I was going to the movies. She expressed she wanted to see that movie too. We arranged to meet and she asked “but, umh, is this a date or what?” which I replied “…umh, it is us going to the movie theater and maybe eat something after that and enjoying each other’s company” which she thought it was funny.

I want and enjoy being courted and treated -- yes, it's old fashioned but that's what allows me to feel cherished and taken care of

How do you court a man and make him feel cherished and taken care of?

Old fashioned, for you, involves a man taking you out, romancing you, paying for your expenses, etc. What would old fashioned traditions involve you doing for him?

Again, that's just *me* and I am not saying this is right or wrong for anyone else

Originally Posted by MariaKintobor

I prefer to pay for everything but due to my relationship my SO pays for everything and I mean EVERYTHING. On the brightside all of my money is saved and invested for my benefit.

Nothing wrong with that. It’s just your preference and what seems to be the norm in the USA.

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

Onihc - So... why did you jump on the girl who said that she wanted the guy to always pay but not jump on the guy that wanted to always pay... So - it's okay for a man to want to pay but not okay for a woman to want a man to pay?

I asked her because women are quick to say they love old traditions but then you apply the old traditions to them as well and that is when all of a sudden old traditions are sexist and should change. A few seem to be REALLY follow traditions and accept their role at home. Not that it is wrong for women to cherry pick traditions. Everybody enjoys their relationships as they want.

I'm still surprised at what a huge issue this seems to be. It has never been an issue for me in any of my relationships or with any of the guys I was dating. Funny.

If you were expected to be the one who courts, pays, takes the initiative, etc. then maybe it would be different. But when it comes to dating and relationships, not so much pressure is put on you. Everything pretty much relies on him. Again, I am not saying this is wrong/right but what pretty much seems to be the way to go in the USA.

Originally Posted by Yzette

I'm the same way, 100%. Plus, whenever I offered to chip in, I was invariably told to "put that away." There are still gentlemen in the world who understand that when they ask for a date, they pay for it.

Interesting thing is that women put their foot down when it comes to house chores saying how it is his house too so he should split all house chores with a woman. But when it comes to dating women leave it all to the guy, right?

There are still independent women in this world. I remember different experiences where the Asian girl I was dating REALLY MEAN IT when she said “Onih, it’s on me” and not just pretend or “oopsie! You beat me to the punch *giggles* “. These girls will put their foot down and tell me it is OUR date and therefore they want to participate as well in all aspects of it.

However, if I am interested, the third date will be my idea, if he doesn't beat me to the suggestion first

Maybe when it comes to house chores women beat men to the punch and clean up instead, right?

I think it's just a reflection of how people were raised and their own past history with dating. (Bitter guys keep tabs.)

You’re right. It can be one or the other. It can be bitter men who keep tabs or women who are leeches who just live off men. We have all kinds of women/men around us.

[Yzette]

Originally Posted by lottamoxie

Just a point of clarification.

SOME women make an equal wage to men. However, most, on average, still only earn $.70 to the $1.00 men make. Unfortunately it's true.

And then, not for nothing, there's this:

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2012-01-02/women-men-jobs/52342710/1"]Men grab most new jobs, even in retail[/URL]

Quite a few men on this forum refuse to acknowledge that there are still disparities between men and women when it comes to employment and wages. That's another topic for another thread, but that these are usually the same men who whine about paying for dates they ask for.

[fleetiebelle]

I asked her because women are quick to say they love old traditions but then you apply the old traditions to them as well and that is when all of a sudden old traditions are sexist and should change. A few seem to be REALLY follow traditions and accept their role at home. Not that it is wrong for women to cherry pick traditions. Everybody enjoys their relationships as they want.

But still, you put all the impetus on the women who liked to be asked out and not pay, and say nothing of the men who prefer to do the asking and paying. A woman who expects to be courted won't get anywhere without the man willing to court her.

[Yzette]

Originally Posted by onihC

Interesting thing is that women put their foot down when it comes to house chores saying how it is his house too so he should split all house chores with a woman. But when it comes to dating women leave it all to the guy, right?

Nope. That's not what I said.

Also, there is a difference between a first date and cohabitation in an established relationship. Mod cut: insulting.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by onihC

I asked her because women are quick to say they love old traditions but then you apply the old traditions to them as well and that is when all of a sudden old traditions are sexist and should change. A few seem to be REALLY follow traditions and accept their role at home. Not that it is wrong for women to cherry pick traditions. Everybody enjoys their relationships as they want.

And yet you didn't ask the guy if he liked to follow the old traditions at home as well. Also - one of the women that you responded to said SHE preferred to pay but her SO didn't let her. You said that was the norm here - so you think it is the norm for women to prefer to pay?

If you were expected to be the one who courts, pays, takes the initiative, etc. then maybe it would be different. But when it comes to dating and relationships, not so much pressure is put on you. Everything pretty much relies on him. Again, I am not saying this is wrong/right but what pretty much seems to be the way to go in the USA.

I never expected anyone to court me, pay me, take the initiative, etc. I've never had a guy lavish me with gifts or take me to fancy restaurants all the time. I've told you this sooooo many times. And most of my girlfriends are the same way. Whenever I dated anyone - including my husband - things just kind of happened organically. It wasn't all this - we have to make sure everything is 50/50!!! How much have you paid? How many times have you asked me out? How much do you like me? What have you done for me? How have you showed me that you like me? That just seems all very selfish to me. In my relationships - we don't keep track of everything like a spreadsheet. Most of the time - by the time we were dating - we would both make the plans together - nobody had to ask anyone out. And honestly - in most of my relationships - we didn't even have a "first date" or anything - we just started spending time together and next thing you know - we are kissing and in love.

People need to stop wasting so much energy on all this crap. If a person is worth it to you - you'll probably go to the end of the world for them - regardless of gender. If all you care about is who picks up the check - well, you have bigger things to worry about.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

But still, you put all the impetus on the women who liked to be asked out and not pay, and say nothing of the men who prefer to do the asking and paying. A woman who expects to be courted won't get anywhere without the man to court her.

Quit making sense!