Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If dating was such a cakewalk for women then none of them would ever complain, relationship self-help books would not exist, nor would shows like Sex and the City which a lot of women identified with. I very rarely hear women say that dating was a good experience.
They just have a different set of problems. As others have said, women will get dozens of messages from OLD and get approached at bars etc.. but 80% of those guys are looking for an easy lay.
As a a guy, if you want to know how it feels, pretend to be gay. After college for a few months I roomed with a couple friends of mine who were gay; they would take me out to the gay clubs, etc.... I'm a decent-looking guy - well, probably average to slightly above average now because I've gained weight but back then I was in excellent shape. It was a eye-opening experience to say the least. It gave me a lot of appreciation for what attractive women must go through all the time.
In my experience, getting the initial date was not always easy, but thinking back on it now most of the women I dated & got past date #'s 2 or 3 with, were willing to start some kind of a relationship, usually an exclusive one. It was especially successful with converting IRL dates to relationships. Online dating was similar, although the failure rate was higher typically because the first meet would often prove disappointing when one of us was not what the other expected. Still, if it got past date 2 the girl wanted a relationship.
The exceptions I've had are with flaky girls in their early 20s. Trying to date that group of women is hard, period. They're flaky and they also get the most attention, adding to their flakiness. That's why it seems so hard for guys when they're in their 20s.
It's easier to date in general as a man over 30, but mainly only because I don't give a damn now if the Starbucks barista gives me some excuse why she can't meet me later. It's worth dealing with that when one of them will say yes, which happens more often than not when you grab your balls and ask. When I was 22 even one rejection from a pretty starbucks barista would have made me upset for two weeks. Now I don't give a f***. I'm secure with my life the way it is, I'll be just as happy reading at home alone as going out with someone.
Well, I am not sure this is universally true or accurate all of the time. Women do get rejected and turned down by men too. Maybe not as frequently as the other way around, but it does happen... and as such it shows that women universally do not hold all the cards.
But that is probably what Ruth was getting at. Men who are not acting desperate and leaving their self respect at the door can also be choosy and have say in who they date and sleep with. It is not uncommon.
I rejected plenty of women. I would get sometimes get messaged directly by women on OKC and never replied back. Not a common occurrence but it happened every few weeks when I was highly active on the site.
What people are talking about are attractive, charismatic women (yes, women need charisma too, their own version of it). They are the ones who can sit back and get approached.
My ex-gf is a very pretty girl - wholesome, girl-next-door type. But she's quiet and introverted, doesn't carry herself very confidently and dressed plainly in her day-to-day life. Her whole demeanor said "don't approach me" so guys didn't. She got asked out a grand total of about once a year by the age of 26 when we started dating, and only one of them was one she even liked a little. So not all women, not even all attractive ones, are bombarded with guys.
Why is there a competition for who has it the worst? I would think that people would rather figure out how to get what they want out of life than try to compete for who is the biggest loser.
You disagree with the premise of the article. Why are you still cmmenting?
No - because dating is a two way street. It's about mutual attraction. And the dates she went on were not from women she picked up - they were from the internet. And they were not attracted to her. And most of the people she got to know thought she was gay.
There were some interesting things she talked about in terms of discovering things about the world of men - but dating women while pretending to be a man is not the same thing as a man dating women.
So basically, dewdrop wants to disagree with the premise because she can't argue with the conclusions.
The woman was able to get dates, which as we've been talking about is a pretty high bar, so obviously she was able to "pass."
But think about some of the things she discovered with her experiences, there is no empathy for men and if that isn't on display in your comments, dewdrop, I don't know what is.
I rejected plenty of women. I would get sometimes get messaged directly by women on OKC and never replied back. Not a common occurrence but it happened every few weeks when I was highly active on the site.
What people are talking about are attractive, charismatic women (yes, women need charisma too, their own version of it). They are the ones who can sit back and get approached.
My ex-gf is a very pretty girl - wholesome, girl-next-door type. But she's quiet and introverted, doesn't carry herself very confidently and dressed plainly in her day-to-day life. Her whole demeanor said "don't approach me" so guys didn't. She got asked out a grand total of about once a year by the age of 26 when we started dating, and only one of them was one she even liked a little. So not all women, not even all attractive ones, are bombarded with guys.
Nobody ever said that all women, attractive or otherwise, are bombarded with guys. But I'm sure that's a fun straw man to beat up.
The argument is that women have it easier in dating, possess more power, and more options than men.
So basically, dewdrop wants to disagree with the premise because she can't argue with the conclusions.
The woman was able to get dates, which as we've been talking about is a pretty high bar, so obviously she was able to "pass."
But think about some of the things she discovered with her experiences, there is no empathy for men and if that isn't on display in your comments, dewdrop, I don't know what is.
The things that she discovered about how men are expected to not express their feelings and such - that is something that I can totally empathize with and understand.
But most of the dates she went on were arranged on the internet - so apparently she couldn't really pass in real life. Most of the people she met thought she was gay. And of course she found the dates brutal - she had absolutely no attraction to these women and they had no attraction to her. That's part of what makes dating fun - chemistry and attraction. And for her, there was none of either of these things.
Most of the posters on here who have addressed the article and not gotten into a contest about who has it the hardest have agreed that a straight woman dressed up as a man is not going to have the same experiences in dating as a straight man.
Do I agree that it must be really hard to approach people that you don't know? Of course. But I also think that it's hard to be a woman and never be approached. Furthermore, a lot of relationships do not start with cold approaches. Many people get to know each other through other avenues - and oftentimes people are interested in each other so the first step isn't as huge of a leap or as scary. Sometimes both people take the step together.
I'm not sure how to argue with the conclusions of a faulty premise.
Nope I read the whole thing and fully understood it as well. I disagreed with most men are dating. I also disagree that some men need to work harder than the top 10% you spoke of. If women easily grant their attention to one subset of men what makes them think they are worthy of forcing another subset to work harder to gain what is given freely to the first subset. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Its clearly a mind game.
Its not a mind game, at least not this part (though I freely admit that women play mind games).When I said those men need to work harder for the same amount of attention, it's not me saying that they can get the same women that the 10% are getting. What I'm saying is the men that are more attractive to women have a higher probability that the women they are approaching will find them attractive. Just to clarify for the rest of my post, for men when I use the word attractive I don't mean just physically. I mean the whole package because women can be turned out initially by many different qualities of a man besides looks.
As others have pointed out, not all women are equally attractive either. For women when I use the word attractive I'm talking about looks because initially that's all most men care about. I just broke down the numbers in a simple manner because otherwise my post would have been too long. Obviously there is an inverse relationship between the attractiveness of a women and a mans likelihood of being rejected when he approaches her. This is because she has more options so she can afford to be picky. So an average guys rejection rate goes up exponentially when approaching attractive women. And if they hit on less attractive women, the chances of success goes up.
So when I say guys have to work hard, they have to exponentially work harder (if they are average or below) to have a chance to date the hot girls. If your only going to hit on girls that are a 9 or 10 expected to be rejected A LOT if your an average guy. Meaning instead of getting a date every 5-10 girls you ask, it will go up to every 30-60. So its not that ALL women will force another subset to "work harder" its that the attractive ones will outright reject most guys NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK because they have more/better options. I mean seriously try to take your rose colored one sided glasses off and ask yourself this: Lets say by some miracle you became the women equivalent of a guy who is seen as a 10 to women and they approached you. If you were being approached by 3-4 girls that look like Adriana Lima every week, why the hell would you even consider dating any girl that's average? 99.9% of guys in that situation wouldn't even look at average or even pretty cute women. So why blame a women for doing the same?
When I said an average guy can date if he works harder what I meant was:
1. First he has to work on his personality, conversation skills, flirting skills and approaching conversation with women.
2. He has to dress decent
3. At least somewhat take care of himself physically.
4. Then he has to approach a lot of women.
5. He also can't be too picky. Meaning a guy that only wants to date 8,9 and 10's.
If he does all of the above he will most definitely be able to date. Your post makes it sound like all women are picky ***ches who as a gender reject 50% of the male population outright. Only the really attractive ones do that. The truth is most men that aren't dating are doing it to themselves. Its called putting effort into what you want,just like anything else in life. Do you think the majority of the USA is overweight/obese because of genetics?? Its because they are too frickin lazy/undisciplined to stay on a proper diet and fitness plan. Like I said there are probably 10% of men that are naturally frozen. The rest simply aren't doing what they need to do to be successful at dating. And that most definitely is not a woman's fault or problem.
Let me ask you a question - do you think that all women get the same attention from all the same men? Do you think that every single woman could date any man that she chooses? Or do you think that there are also subsets of women - say women that get asked out all the time, women that get asked out occasionally, and women that never get asked out?
I know you didn't ask me, but I suspect my answers might reflect the opinions of those whom you did, (or at least resemble them), so here you go
1) Do you think that all women get the same attention from all men? Obviously not.
2) Do you think that every single woman could date any man that she chooses? Again, obviously not, but that's an extreme example, don't you think? There's more than a bit of difference between "wow, you seem to be able to get dates pretty freely" versus "any woman could date any man she wanted". Keep in mind that this is typically coming from men who can't get a date AT ALL, not men who "are only getting women they're not interested in", which is a common complaint I hear from women.
3) Do you think that there are subsets of women (examples): Of course there are. But very few men are going to have the slightest concern over what a woman's success is in GETTING ASKED OUT, because it still implies an absence of effort. To a guy, "I never get asked out" is akin to saying "I wasn't handed a job today". Even if a woman were to go so far as to tell stories about how she gets rejected when she asks men out, they're not going to believe her because THAT'S HOW INFREQUENTLY IT HAPPENS.
Those subsets you refer to? They're DRASTICALLY more concentrated among men, which is why a huge portion of men will simply think "so?" when they hear this complaint.
I have to admit that I'm in this same camp; I look at a woman who complains about not getting asked out like a man who complains that he wasn't handed a $20. And sadly (from an anecdotal perspective), I wouldn't even believe a woman who legitimately asked men out with any level of frequency, because I see it so infrequently.
If I knew a woman who asked men out and failed like men do...oh man, would my heart reach out to her. Seriously, that would SUCK, because we ALL know what that's like. But that one anecdotal story about that one time she asked a guy out and got rejected will fall on deaf ears; hell, picture a guy making that same statement. We even have a few of them on the board, and I have no sympathy for them either.
If you want something, go get it. Waiting for it to come get you makes you sound entitled, and for men, that's a HUGE turn off.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
