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It is absolute truth. And no--it's not up to me to prove that to you. If you're unwilling to believe after reading it (I assume you HAVE read it if you're going to criticize it), there isn't much I can do. You seem like a nice guy, and I would like to see you come to faith in Christ, but I am not compelled to prove to you what you refuse to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
Refuse implies stubbornness. It's more a matter of can't believe.
Visio, as a pastor and someone who makes extraordinary claims, I would expect you actually feel duty bound to provide proof of the claims, or at least compelling evidence. But you refuse to even provide suggestive evidence. Oh sure, you have posted bible quotes but that is like trying to prove Alice in Wonderland by quoting from that book.
Look, you and your's are telling us that we will be condemned to hell, eternal anguish or eternal death (the latter we already know and accept) yet providing proof is not your responsibility?
Do you not preach the word of God in your church? To a congregation? Surely you should be obliged to provide these people with proof or compelling evidence? We have shown that many modern bibles actually contain false interpretations regarding the gay stance. This coupled with your refusal (or inability) to provide compelling evidence for your beliefs in God casts serious doubt on the 'truth' of the bible.
Well I have no reason to believe your claim that God is a myth.
I wish atheists would just be honest and admit that you don't want evidence. Oh you say you do to look good, but deep down, it's far from the truth. Atheists hate God. It's evident in ugly nasty language that they use when talking to Christians or about the Bible and God. You can still make the same points without resorting to such offensive condescending language, but I see it over and over. Sky fairy for example. Atheists want to avoid God so of course they are going to instant reject any evidence that a Christian brings to the table. It is a waste of time to even try.
The evidence is out for those who truly have a heart for God.
I think you may have missed your calling in life - you should have been a psychoanalyst.
So Mr psychoanalyst, can you please help me understand why I cannot find it in me to believe in Baal? Baal has threatened to send me to the pits of hell if I don't believe and worship him but I just cannot believe (something to do with there being zero evidence for his existence). I hate Baal, even though I know he doesn't exist - why is that?
How does one 'hate' something we know to not exist? Well, we can't say we know since there is no evidence for no existence (although the total lack of any evidence whatsoever for the existence of any deity despite all the claims of so many, is pretty compelling suggestive evidence of no existence).
Jeff, I watched video of a teenager stating that the Grand Canyon was caused by the great flood because that is what he was taught in school in Creation Science!
That is cause for alarm and cause for 'hating' your religion. You people are teaching kids myths and fable as fact! That is teaching kids lies.
Well I have no reason to believe your claim that God is a myth.
I wish atheists would just be honest and admit that you don't want evidence. Oh you say you do to look good, but deep down, it's far from the truth. Atheists hate God. It's evident in ugly nasty language that they use when talking to Christians or about the Bible and God. You can still make the same points without resorting to such offensive condescending language, but I see it over and over. Sky fairy for example. Atheists want to avoid God so of course they are going to instant reject any evidence that a Christian brings to the table. It is a waste of time to even try.
The evidence is out for those who truly have a heart for God.
Really Jeffy?? Really?? Why don't you Christians go over to ex-christian.net and read testimonials of ex Christians who left the faith and see what they have to say. Lots of good testimonies of people who can no longer buy into the BS. Attached is a link from a poster called Margee over there. Read it in it's entirety and ask yourself one question. Does she sound like somebody who didn't want evidence or somebody who truly didn't want to believe with all her heart and mind? The sick thing that Christians on this board can't seem to accept is that there are many atheists who struggled for years with doubts and questions while they were self-proclaimed believers and yet if your Bible God exists, GOD WAS THE FAILURE IN THE WHOLE PROCESS. I can understand a God who when an unbeliever gets to the so called "seat of judgement" as a dead unbeliever but then Bible God says "you know, you just didn't get the evidence I presented to you down on Earth for some reason. Now that you are out of that "sinful body and mind" and not under the influence of Satan, let me show you what you missed in trying to figure out my existence." That would be a loving, and UNDERSTANDING God in my opinion. Instead we are left with "well you didn't believe on Earth, now your time has come to pay for that in hell." I won't even try to defend the idiocy of allowing some evil spirit called Satan to even exist to influence people, including the very innocent and child like mentality that Adam and Eve apparently seemed to have. I call ABUSE and NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bible God on that one. Of course I think it's mythology and made up silliness.
The other point is that you don't seem to grasp that we atheists view your GOD as a psychopath and sociopath and not to mention an animal killer and baby killer to boot. Yes you Christians can make all the excuses you want for this and pull that BS card called "well you are not reading the verses in context" stuff I read on here continuously, but we think that worshipping and respecting a sociopath is immoral and sick. We think that drowning animals in a fit of rage is immoral and sick. Moral and decent people SHOULD get angry at this behavior. It shows they are MORAL and compassionate people. What part of that don't YOU get?? BTW, there are many testimonials just like Margee's over at that site. I often wonder if Pastor Vizio would let ex-christians come into his church where he preaches every Sunday and for 52 straight Sundays, allow 52 ex-christians to tell why they don't buy it anymore. Might be bad for the collection plate though.
The ONLY one who saves is Jesus, not anything WE do or do not do. We are sanctified when we love God and each other every day and repent when we don't. THAT gives us the cover of Christ's perfect agape love (Grace) for our imperfections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Great! I'm in complete agreement.
That is a "do". You just said that it wasn't up to us to do or not do. So....how much repentance do we need? What if we miss a day?
Wait...I thought Christ saved us..not this "agape love" thing.
You have never understood the process, Vizio because you are fixated on what you THINK we have to BELIEVE ABOUT Jesus and God, as if such petty and trivial nonsense would be of concern to Almighty God. There is no contradiction. Jesus saved us all, It is a done deal. It is finished. We will all have life with God and Jesus. What we will have to account for is the hurt and harm we have selfishly or ignorantly or obliviously inflicted on others during our lifetime. That is Sanctification and has nothing to do with being saved. Even if we believe Jesus and try to have agape love for everyone, we will fail. If we do not even know about Jesus and agape love or know the wrong things it will be even more difficult .
Our unloving imperfections will be covered by Christ's perfection if we have repented of them and genuinely changed our state of mind about them. If not, we will reap what we sow by having to experience all the hurt or harm we have ever inflicted on others throughout our life. This is the refinement we are told about where all the dross (unlove) is refined out of our Spirit and produces a changed and pure Spirit. You have it wrong and always have, Vizio. Agape love is the goal because God IS agape love.
I don't care about your "view" I care about your actions, and when those actions harm me and mine, then you have made yourself my enemy. YOU are the one that created this backlash against yourself, enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Remind me again how we have harmed you? Your side once said that all you wanted was the right to marry. And that was the end of it. You won, and it wasn't the end. You are STILL complaining that we are just blocking all your civil rights. The truth is your side will never be satisfied until every American is forced to accept an immoral lifestyle or be punished. It's all about power and control.
The only thing this thread accomplished was showing just how twisted and unfair your side can be. You take a tragedy and use it as a convenient tool to go after Christians. Disgraceful.
The only thing this thread accomplished was showing just how twisted and unfair your side can be. You take a tragedy and use it as a convenient tool to go after Christians. Disgraceful.
Because , of course, no one has shown even a single example of how any Christians believe the same way and think that gays should be killed .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
It is absolute truth. And no--it's not up to me to prove that to you. If you're unwilling to believe after reading it (I assume you HAVE read it if you're going to criticize it), there isn't much I can do. You seem like a nice guy, and I would like to see you come to faith in Christ, but I am not compelled to prove to you what you refuse to believe.
Vizio, I have probably studied the bible and other scriptures as much or more than you have. If anything, it makes one more of an unbeliever. The stories in there are so incredulous, that they were written by either extremely superstitious people, liars, people who were stoned out of their gourds while having hallucinations, or mentally ill individuals.
In some cases, a combination of the some or all of the above.
If it wasn't for two really, really good salesmen, Paul and Constantine, one by the power of persuasion by words, the other by the sword (sort of like Mohammed did a few years later), Christianity would be another old religion known only through the garbage heap of history. It portrays a horrible world, one that promotes slavery, child abuse, misogyny, spirit worship, cannibalism and death by all sorts of horrible means. Thanks, but no thanks.
Really Jeffy?? Really?? Why don't you Christians go over to ex-christian.net and read testimonials of ex Christians who left the faith and see what they have to say. Lots of good testimonies of people who can no longer buy into the BS. Attached is a link from a poster called Margee over there. Read it in it's entirety and ask yourself one question. Does she sound like somebody who didn't want evidence or somebody who truly didn't want to believe with all her heart and mind? The sick thing that Christians on this board can't seem to accept is that there are many atheists who struggled for years with doubts and questions while they were self-proclaimed believers and yet if your Bible God exists, GOD WAS THE FAILURE IN THE WHOLE PROCESS. I can understand a God who when an unbeliever gets to the so called "seat of judgement" as a dead unbeliever but then Bible God says "you know, you just didn't get the evidence I presented to you down on Earth for some reason.
Ok, so now we are saying personal evidence is evidence? You can't have it both ways. The problem with presenting a testimony like this to me is I am only seeing a snapshot. I don't know her whole story. I don't even know what happened to her after this posting. Maybe she found God later.
God reveals himself to those who seek Him, but He does it in His time and His way. Man's problem is we want to make God the puppet on a string and have Him work the way WE want Him to like showing evidence immediately or revealing Himself to every human being in the exact same fashion. That's the limited of human thinking. We see conformity in creation and expect the same from the Creator. God don't work that way. He may not reveal Himself to you tomorrow. Or next month. Or even next year, but it will happen someway somehow in a manner that works best for you.
But being mad and stomping your feet and shaking your fist at God for not just answering my prayer right here right now doesn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008
Now that you are out of that "sinful body and mind" and not under the influence of Satan, let me show you what you missed in trying to figure out my existence." That would be a loving, and UNDERSTANDING God in my opinion. Instead we are left with "well you didn't believe on Earth, now your time has come to pay for that in hell." I won't even try to defend the idiocy of allowing some evil spirit called Satan to even exist to influence people, including the very innocent and child like mentality that Adam and Eve apparently seemed to have. I call ABUSE and NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bible God on that one. Of course I think it's mythology and made up silliness.
God's intelligence is like a billion times greater than ours. And yet you are going to claim you could do a better job at being God? T
Remind me again how we have harmed you? Your side once said that all you wanted was the right to marry. And that was the end of it. You won, and it wasn't the end. You are STILL complaining that we are just blocking all your civil rights. The truth is your side will never be satisfied until every American is forced to accept an immoral lifestyle or be punished. It's all about power and control.
The only thing this thread accomplished was showing just how twisted and unfair your side can be. You take a tragedy and use it as a convenient tool to go after Christians. Disgraceful.
No one ever suggested that marriage inequality was the exclusive and only issue of concern to the gay community or that SSM was some sort of quid pro quo such that if you allow it, all other perfidy you want to engage in will be overlooked.
Either you are, or are not, "blocking their civil rights". Unblocking ONE of them (after a tooth and nail fight to continue blocking it) doesn't change other inequities. If anything, it probably just frees up attention and resources to focus on other inequities. Because your bigotry is like layers of an onion ... each one just produces more tears.
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