U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-14-2014, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,964 posts, read 6,500,939 times
Reputation: 44359

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
So if you had a child there would be no Santa,Easter Bunny or any other form of fantasy in the childs life, just the cold hard facts of life dictated to him from the adult perspective the moment he can understand speech, sounds like a draconian existence for the poor kid as i suppose you'd also dictate which books he could read and soundly admonish the kid for reading Thomas the tank engine..
I;d lighten up and let the kid find out for himself about the fantasies of life.
You are not me, obviously.
I never had children for a reason. Mainly becasue of the dishonesty and how cruel some people can be. Not saying they all are but the overly religious ones are the worst.

I don't like to lie, period. I have a conscience.

If I did have children they would have a much better life than I had being raised by religious parents in a "draconian" way who taught me to believe in that nonsense.

You are painting me as a person that I am not.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-14-2014, 03:56 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,714 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
So if you had a child there would be no Santa,Easter Bunny or any other form of fantasy in the childs life
That is a stretch. Not lying to a child is not the same as precluding all forms of fantasy. Children are perfectly able to indulge in fantasy in all its facets without having to subscribe to actually believing it. In fact so often do I get into the fantasy of some of my games with my 3.5 year old daughter, it is often her not me that reminds me "Daddy this is all just pretend".

Removing falsehoods and lies from a child's life is NOT the same as not indulging their faculty of fantasy. By ANY stretch. The fantasy life of my child is very much stimulated thank you, without me ever once having to pretend a single fantasy we played with was real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I'd lighten up and let the kid find out for himself about the fantasies of life
Then take that advice and do so! Because the tone and content of your post implies that you are doing the exact opposite by equating failing to present fantasy as truth, as failing to afford a child any fantasy life at all.

So yes. Lighten up! Go with the fantasy. Indulge it, play with it, but at all times also develop and work with the childs ability to know the difference between fantasy and reality while engaging with it.

Again: No aspect of indulging the fantasy faculty of children, and stimulating their imagination, requires they actually need think any given fantasy is actually _true_.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
I never had children for a reason. I don't like to lie, period. I have a conscience.
The good news is, you are not often required to. People like Jambo just think you do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 05:09 AM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,480,724 times
Reputation: 29864
I fathered 4 great kids i gave them the mental freedom to figure out for themselves about things like Santa and the Easter bunny etc. I think feeling the need to deny young kids the natural fantasies that come with childhood things like Santa etc is something you should be ashamed of John.
Moderator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 05-14-2014 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: Insults within posts are deleted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 06:38 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,846 posts, read 3,356,556 times
Reputation: 4055
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I fathered 4 great kids i gave them the mental freedom to figure out for themselves about things like Santa and the Easter bunny etc. I think feeling the need to deny young kids the natural fantasies that come with childhood things like Santa etc is something you should be ashamed of John.
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Equating God with Santa in this kind of situation is disingenuous.

The reason is pretty straighforward. When your children reach the age where they begin doubting Santa, what do you tell them? Do you encourage them to keep believing? Do you tell them that Santa will be angry if you doubt him and won't bring you presents next year?

I ask this because I'd be curious to hear what you told your children when they began asking questions about God.

Because, as you well know, we as a society actually discourage children from bringing a belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny into late childhood or early adolescence. If they cling to these beliefs for too long, the child might be sent to counseling or some other more extreme measure to shake him of believing in those fantasies.

Yet do we do this with God? Of course not. We tend to let kids believe in God all they wish for as long as they wish - and in this country, there are plenty of others out there who will try to encourage that belief, as well.

Last edited by june 7th; 05-14-2014 at 07:02 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 02:31 PM
 
16,102 posts, read 17,903,536 times
Reputation: 15895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
So if you had a child there would be no Santa,Easter Bunny or any other form of fantasy in the childs life, just the cold hard facts of life dictated to him from the adult perspective the moment he can understand speech, sounds like a draconian existence for the poor kid as i suppose you'd also dictate which books he could read and soundly admonish the kid for reading Thomas the tank engine..
I;d lighten up and let the kid find out for himself about the fantasies of life..
Make-believe play: A fantastic life skill - Canadian Living
No one said the child could not have a fantasy life. It's just that children can recognize that these things *are* make believe and not real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,223,450 times
Reputation: 29451
I wonder if these folks even realize they're conflating their beliefs with childhood fantasies . . .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 02:43 PM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,480,724 times
Reputation: 29864
How many individuals do you suppose grow into adulthood believing Santa and the Easter bunny are real'
How much fun do you suppose kids have at various Christmas parties and Easter egg hunts.Halloween How do you suppose a kid is going to feel at one of these events if dad has told them its all based on lies and deceit its not real..
IMO the kid will grow up soon enough at 5 years old he can have a brief moment in his life to think Santa is reaL and not have to live up to dads pressing need to have a 5 year old adult..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 03:00 PM
 
16,102 posts, read 17,903,536 times
Reputation: 15895
Many children grow up not believing in Santa, either because they don't celebrate Christmas or follow traditions of a different culture. In fact, some Christian families prefer to emphasize the religious meaning of Christmas and don't bother with Santa.

Does belief in Santa Claus hamper or hinder critical thinking? - CSMonitor.com

Quote:
Johnson sees that moment when kids’ belief begins to fade as a critical point in the formation of children’s ability to think critically and maintain trust.

A real problem arises when parents “encourage kids to keep believing even after they express doubts," he says.

“In general we have a critical thinking problem in this country,” he says. “A good portion of my students believes that Chris Angel [an illusionist] really can walk on water. Many believe in ghosts. I’m not saying that the Santa myth is to blame, but perpetuating the myth and encouraging kids to ignore their intuition about what’s real and what’s not is a real problem.”

On the other hand, parenting experts and psychologists suggest that helping to guide children through the process of realizing that Santa is not real can lay the foundation for critical thinking skills.

The Santa myth “is a way to have kids engage in a harmless cultural myth and to think their way out of it,” says Dale McGowan, a former critical thinking professor and author of “Parenting Without Belief” and “Raising Free Thinkers.”
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,201 posts, read 10,420,399 times
Reputation: 11215
I have a two-year old son and plan to tell him (when he asks) I don't believe in any god, but he can make his own choices. It's not fair for me to impose my atheism on him any more than it's fair for other parents to impose religious beliefs on their children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 03:43 PM
 
35 posts, read 75,833 times
Reputation: 29
I didn't read all 12 pages but with ours, and it helps that the school teaches all religion, we let them explore on their own. Our oldest is 10 and she's asked me a few times when she was younger. I told her that while my husband and I don't believe in religion, it doesn't mean that she shouldn't if it's something she believes in. There's no right or wrong as long one's happy and is a good humane being. I told her that some people need religion to help them be nice, to make them feel hopeful about the after life, or to feel like they are a part of a group. If she feels like she needs to believe then go ahead. I told her I'd take her to any building. But if she doesn't believe, it's ok. I told her that while we're not religious, I believe that there is something wonderful out there. Maybe it's God, aliens, spirits, the spaghetti monster, who knows, but life and the world is too beautiful to be such a cosmic coincidence

And she still believes in Santa although last Christmas may be her last... She seems a bit wiser. We'll see this coming Christmas We let our kids believe whatever until they tell us they don't think it's real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top