Why don't poor neighborhoods have Grocery Stores? (for rent, live)

[eevee]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

The solution is to stop paying food stamps for junk food. If you limit food stamps to just milk, eggs. vegetables, etc., poor people will be forced to eat healthier. I know many will still sell their food stamps for cash and still buy junk but this should help promote healthy living.

what you're describing is the WIC program. WIC is pretty strict about what can be bought w/ the vouchers, even mandating only certain brand and sizes be bought (for example, a common item I've seen on WIC vouchers is GM Cheerios, but if a store doesn't carry the name brand Cheerios, or the store doesn't carry the specified sizes, it's a major hassle to switch). WIC tends to focus on healthier foods: certain brands of cereals, OJ, milk, eggs, etc. it can be limiting though, and I'm sure people prefer food stamps over WIC, though I think more people qualify for the latter than the former.

[surlycue]

Originally Posted by eevee

what you're describing is the WIC program. WIC is pretty strict about what can be bought w/ the vouchers, even mandating only certain brand and sizes be bought (for example, a common item I've seen on WIC vouchers is GM Cheerios, but if a store doesn't carry the name brand Cheerios, or the store doesn't carry the specified sizes, it's a major hassle to switch). WIC tends to focus on healthier foods: certain brands of cereals, OJ, milk, eggs, etc. it can be limiting though, and I'm sure people prefer food stamps over WIC, though I think more people qualify for the latter than the former.

yes and no to their health concerns. you are not allowed any organics through the wic program so typically the cheeses would be kraft (and you could not get reduced fat, only the most basic), there would be no cage-free eggs or soy milk for example, no kashi or whole grain cereals with fruit only plain cheerios, plain kix, plain rice crispies which really contain only empty carbs and very little healthful value.

i only had wic for the first year of my daugther's life but they never provided vouchers for any bread, fruit, meat or vegatables. only dairy and juice (which by the way could only be juicy juice which i would not dare feed to my kid if my life depended on it - nothing but sugar). the program is certainly flawed and may unintentionally perpetuate the health issues it is attempting to prevent by skimping on quality products to achieve a more fiscally sound program.

[Avengerfire]

Let me clarify what the facts are:

Juice Questions

"1. Are fruit drinks fortified with vitamin C WIC-eligible?

Fruit drinks are not WIC-eligible. Federal regulations specify that juices authorized for use in the WIC Program must be 100 percent fruit and/or vegetable juice. Juices must also contain 30 milligrams of vitamin C per 100 milliliters of juice. State agencies are responsible for determining the brands and types of WIC-eligible juice approved for use on its State food list. "

WIC Food Package Juice FAQs



"4. Are organic foods WIC-eligible?

The categories of and nutritional requirements for all WIC foods are specified by Federal regulations. Some organic forms of WIC-eligible foods meet these Federal requirements. However, organic foods are often more expensive than non-organic foods. WIC State agencies are responsible for determining the brands and types of foods to authorize on their own State WIC food lists. Some State agencies may allow organic foods on their food lists, but this will vary by State."

WIC Food Package General FAQs

"1. How were the WIC-eligible foods chosen for the program?

WIC foods include juice, iron-fortified cereal, eggs, cheese, milk, peanut butter, dried beans or peas, iron-fortified infant formula, tuna, and carrots. Federal regulations specify the minimum nutritional requirements for these WIC-eligible foods. Each of the WIC foods is rich in one or more of the nutrients protein, calcium, iron, vitamin A, and vitamin C. These nutrients have been shown to be lacking in the diets of the population WIC serves and are needed to help WIC participants meet their nutritional needs during critical periods of growth and development. The WIC FOODS ARE INTENDED TO SUPPLEMENT a participant’s nutrient intake and should be consumed along with other wholesome foods needed for a balanced diet."

WIC Food Package General FAQs

"The WIC target population are low-income, nutritionally at risk:

* Pregnant women (through pregnancy and up to 6 weeks after birth or after pregnancy ends).
* Breastfeeding women (up to infant’s 1st birthday)
* Nonbreastfeeding postpartum women (up to 6 months after the birth of an infant or after pregnancy ends)
* Infants (up to 1st birthday). WIC serves 45 percent of all infants born in the United States.
* Children up to their 5th birthday."

"Benefits

The following benefits are provided to WIC participants:

* Supplemental nutritious foods
* NUTRITION EDUCATION AND COUNSELING AT WIC CLINICS
* Screening and referrals to other health, welfare and social services


WIC at a Glance"

================================================== =====
If one qualifies for WIC they surely qualify for foods stamps (like the Link Card or whatever it is called in whatever state they are in) as well. That program (or from income) is where one buys their bread, fruit, meat or vegetables .

[eevee]

Originally Posted by surlycue

yes and no to their health concerns. you are not allowed any organics through the wic program so typically the cheeses would be kraft (and you could not get reduced fat, only the most basic), there would be no cage-free eggs or soy milk for example, no kashi or whole grain cereals with fruit only plain cheerios, plain kix, plain rice crispies which really contain only empty carbs and very little healthful value.

i only had wic for the first year of my daugther's life but they never provided vouchers for any bread, fruit, meat or vegatables. only dairy and juice (which by the way could only be juicy juice which i would not dare feed to my kid if my life depended on it - nothing but sugar). the program is certainly flawed and may unintentionally perpetuate the health issues it is attempting to prevent by skimping on quality products to achieve a more fiscally sound program.

interesting, I had forgotten about all this (most of my info about WIC comes from having worked in stores that took them). I wonder if they could just combine the two programs, but w/ some changes. set up it up like WIC where you're restricted to certain items (but w/o making it too strict and giving more options, including organics/alternative foods) but instead of vouchers (which are pretty annoying), set it up like the food stamps program where there is a card involved. when you use food stamps, most supermarket registers will automatically know to not charge non food items and hot meals to the card. it would be difficult, but couldn't a similar program be set up so only foods on the program went through? you could set it up so people have an allowance for a certain amount of produce, certain amount of meat, etc. and if the person goes over their allotted amount, or buys a product not okay'd by the program (for example, brand of cereal that doesn't meet certain health requirements), they have to pay for it w/ their own cash. seems like it would be a compromise between the overly strict WIC program that gives you limited options, and the overly lax food stamps program that lets people buy junk on the taxpayer's dime. like I said, it would be difficult to implement, but it may be step in the right direction

blah, I feel like that didn't make too much sense explaining it, but it's late! (damn daylight savings!)

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[otters21]

Originally Posted by otters21

Some of that has to do with the car culture.Alot of folks in the poorer neighborhoods cannot afford to drive much less afford to eat healthy. Thats why there is alot of unhealthy eating in the poor areas.The grocery stores are going to where the "money is" and where it would be profitable to them. It seems when a neighborhood declines alot of small businesses move or close up and that includes even corner bars . This is not just happening in Chicago but all over. Look at all the empty and boarded up store fronts in neighborhood shopping areas.

Unfortunately the areas where the grocery stores are moving to are car oriented and alot of the poor cannot afford cars and many times there is no public transit around the grocery stores. Even a young single setting out on his or her own for the first time cannot afford the expense for both an apartment and a car. Believe me, I have been in that situation for MANY years.

[Venom]

Moo and Oink

[Basekamp]

They call theft from stores TARE, Taken Against Revenue Expectation, or something like that, it is measured in $$$. The most robbed-from Grocery Store in the USA is the "Shady" Krogers in Dayton, OH. NOT in Chicago. Believe it or not. TARE does NOT prevent stores from operating, it just changes what they sell. EX: No Filet Mignion or Lobster. A very high level of TARE will result in stores carrying all very low $ per pound items, often the least healthy for local consumers. The reason Chicago does not have grocery stores is that Super Value (Albertsons, Jewel, Dominicks) does not have experience operating in high TARE neighborhoods, and also will not risk diminishing its brand name by removing the necessary items from the shelves, or changing the customer order process in ways that might diminish customer service (pay for meat at the meat station, etc.)

Is there a lost opportunity, probably. But money follows it's own rules, and until crime goes down, you won't find a Dominicks or Jewel within miles.

Oh and IMO food stamps have little to do with it as Section 8 is heavy with food stamp collectors, who live fairly evenly distributed downtown as well. eg. There is a Dominicks right next to Cabrini Green.

[icebergsyndrome]

Originally Posted by Basekamp

They call theft from stores TARE, Taken Against Revenue Expectation, or something like that, it is measured in $$$. The most robbed-from Grocery Store in the USA is the "Shady" Krogers in Dayton, OH. NOT in Chicago. Believe it or not. TARE does NOT prevent stores from operating, it just changes what they sell. EX: No Filet Mignion or Lobster. A very high level of TARE will result in stores carrying all very low $ per pound items, often the least healthy for local consumers. The reason Chicago does not have grocery stores is that Super Value (Albertsons, Jewel, Dominicks) does not have experience operating in high TARE neighborhoods, and also will not risk diminishing its brand name by removing the necessary items from the shelves, or changing the customer order process in ways that might diminish customer service (pay for meat at the meat station, etc.)

Is there a lost opportunity, probably. But money follows it's own rules, and until crime goes down, you won't find a Dominicks or Jewel within miles.

Oh and IMO food stamps have little to do with it as Section 8 is heavy with food stamp collectors, who live fairly evenly distributed downtown as well. eg. There is a Dominicks right next to Cabrini Green.

1. Supervalu does not own Dominick's. It DOES own Jewel, via its acquisition of Albertson's. Dominicick's is owned by Safeway. As to whether these companies have experience in high TARE neighborhoods, I am woefully ignorant.
2. The Dominick's near Cabrini Green has everything to do with the increased affluence of the neighborhood and nothing with the fact that there are still housing projects nearby.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Basekamp

Is there a lost opportunity, probably. But money follows it's own rules, and until crime goes down, you won't find a Dominicks or Jewel within miles.

Oh and IMO food stamps have little to do with it as Section 8 is heavy with food stamp collectors, who live fairly evenly distributed downtown as well. eg. There is a Dominicks right next to Cabrini Green.

The Dominick's next to Cabrini Green went in when the reds started coming down and the yuppies started moving in. It is the latter, not the former, that is their target market; Dominick's wanted to be the first there to get their business. They've even had to train their staff, drawn largely from longer-term neighborhood residents, in "yuppie food" and explain things like water crackers and sushi and why the hell anyone would want to eat this stuff.

Other than that, I agree that "Section 8" means nothing to them. As long as you can pay for your groceries, they don't care who pays your rent at home. Jewel and Dominick's have a handful of stores in otherwise underserved areas.