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Old 07-10-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,984 posts, read 34,302,543 times
Reputation: 10457

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I am quite intelligent but you give me too much credit. I am not trying to play games. I just want to understand why belief in God isn't enough for salvation.
There is nothing else I can tell you to help you understand what salvation is, and why Satan is not saved. It has been made painfully clear over the months and years. You need to read the Bible and pray that God will help you understand salvation. However, considering the fact that you have been involved in hundreds of threads where the topic of salvation has been explained over and over, and yet (by your own admission) you still do not understand it, then there is a good possibility that God does not want you to understand at this point.

So again, my advice to you is that you read the Bible and pray that God will open your mind to understand it.

You can start with John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

pay attention "all who received him", not "all who believe he exists"

and John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

pay attention "believes IN him", and not "believes he exists". Satan KNOWS God exists, but he does not believe IN Him. Get it?

John 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

Pay attention "believes him", not just "believed he exists".

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

pay attention "believes IN him", and not "believes he exists
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There is nothing else I can tell you to help you understand what salvation is, and why Satan is not saved. It has been made painfully clear over the months and years. You need to read the Bible and pray that God will help you understand salvation. However, considering the fact that you have been involved in hundreds of threads where the topic of salvation has been explained over and over, and yet (by your own admission) you still do not understand it, then there is a good possibility that God does not want you to understand at this point.

So again, my advice to you is that you read the Bible and pray that God will open your mind to understand it.

You can start with John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

pay attention "all who received him", not "all who believe he exists"

and John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

pay attention "believes IN him", and not "believes he exists". Satan KNOWS God exists, but he does not believe IN Him. Get it?

John 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

Pay attention "believes him", not just "believed he exists".

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

pay attention "believes IN him", and not "believes he exists
So there is no list of things? Wishy washy isn't it? Then basically you could define "belief" anyway you want in any given circumstance to any person. If they don't agree with you then you just say they don't believe the right thing or in the right way....

Here is a sample list:
1. Believe Jesus rose from the dead.
2. Believe in God.
3. Believe Jesus died for your sins.
4. Believe Jesus is God.

There could be more depending on the person so I was asking what you think the writers of the NT meant by "believe."

Obviously you don't have any answer because your definition and/or criteria is everchanging... IMO.

If you had a surefire way to avoid hell wouldn't you share it?

I have heard it preached that you should believe because even if you are wrong at least you are covered... what kind of belief is that?

Satan "believes in him" yet you say he is not saved?
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,984 posts, read 34,302,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Obviously you don't have any answer because your definition and/or criteria is everchanging...
Hate to say it, but that is a lie.

Quote:
If you had a surefire way to avoid hell wouldn't you share it?
Yes, and I have told it here countless times. Accept Christ as your Lord and saviour and you are saved. This is how you become a believer.

Quote:
I have heard it preached that you should believe because even if you are wrong at least you are covered... what kind of belief is that?
One say God may open your heart and you may understand what salvation means.

Quote:
Satan "believes in him" yet you say he is not saved
Right, he knows God exists, but he has rejected him as his Lord and saviour, and therefore he is going to hell.

This is not complicated.

PS. This is my final post to you. I have had enough of seeing you pretend as if you don't understand simple language.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:18 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,564 times
Reputation: 264
When Jesus lived and walked the earth He did not explain to people HOW they could be saved. Right? I mean, not in clear terms. He had not died for their sins or risen yet. So, if accepting/believing in Jesus is the criteria to be saved, ever wonder why God didn't just let Him explain it to the disciples something like this:

I'm going to be crucified in a few years, and this will be the sacrifice for your sins. On the third day God will raise me from the dead. This will free you from your sins and eternal death. However, remember this, and tell everyone you know - YOU MUST BELIEVE THIS or you will burn in hell. If you DO NOT BELIEVE that my death and resurrection frees you from you sins, then it will in fact, NOT free you from your sins. So please, whatever you so, make sure that there are many witnesses to my death, and make sure you convince as many people as possible of the truth of my resurrection so they can pass it down through the generations. Otherwise, if people don't believe it, my death and resurrection will not be of much effect since most people will not believe and will burn forever in hell.

Or maybe UR is correct and Jesus came for the purpose of saving mankind from sin and death and there's nothing we can DO to make sure his sacrifice takes effect. And maybe He spent his time on earth teaching us how to live and love and avoid sin, so that we could fulfill our purpose in life, form a relationship with God, and avoid the consequences of the judgment.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
BHFT,

He did explain that very thing, in multiple places.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:54 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
BHFT,

He did explain that very thing, in multiple places.
Absolute nonsense created by the precepts and doctrines of men . . . not Jesus.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,984 posts, read 34,302,543 times
Reputation: 10457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Or maybe UR is correct and Jesus came for the purpose of saving mankind from sin and death and there's nothing we can DO to make sure his sacrifice takes effect. And maybe He spent his time on earth teaching us how to live and love and avoid sin, so that we could fulfill our purpose in life, form a relationship with God, and avoid the consequences of the judgment.
Actually the need for faith in Christ is mentioned some 200 times in the Bible, and Christ could have spent his time preaching only love for the neighbor and nothing else, but he did not. He made sure he repeated the message of salvation and need for faith over and over to made sure people understood and would not pay the price for rejection in hell. Sometimes he said using plain language, and sometimes he used parables.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
BHFT,

He did explain that very thing, in multiple places.
Where did he say this: "If you DO NOT BELIEVE that my death and resurrection frees you from you sins, then it will in fact, NOT free you from your sins."

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Old 07-10-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually the need for faith in Christ is mentioned some 200 times in the Bible, and Christ could have spent his time preaching only love for the neighbor and nothing else, but he did not. He made sure he repeated the message of salvation and need for faith over and over to made sure people understood and would not pay the price for rejection in hell. Sometimes he said using plain language, and sometimes he used parables.
"Some People?"

Like the descendants of Abraham...those people?

He was talking to specific people...in the first century.

If they did not turn from their ways willingly they would be destroyed. They WERE destroyed. The whole system of Judaism changed. They didn't have a choice. Jesus warned THEM.. not us... of impending doom. Guess who all died in the city in 70AD.... The Jewish leaders...Those who did not believe Jesus' testimony, the ones that crucified him.

He did free them from their sin.. to then say he didn't because they don't see it is ridiculous! IMHO of course.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Where did he say this: "If you DO NOT BELIEVE that my death and resurrection frees you from you sins, then it will in fact, NOT free you from your sins."

You have spent enough time here, so have you Mystic, and every one else that believes this nonsense.....it ails me to see this kind of ignorance.
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