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Most people I've interacted with who give a reason why they cannot accept what they understand to be the God of the Bible say, in one way or another, it is "The Hell Doctrine" that they reject.
As a Christian I hope you understand my God, who reveals Himself in many ways, has also revealed Himself with the Holy Bible which is written in Greek and Hebrew. That means I can't unthinkingly take the word of paid translators or interpreters who have an interest in pleasing their employers. Many today create Bibles to sell rather than to be painfully faithful to what is written. They preach to tickle the ears of their audiences. When I stand before His judgment I won't be justified by claiming those to whom I gave away my mind misled me. I'm responsible to do some research into what God says. Statistics tell me that almost 97% of the people who claim to be Christians, who have some experience of God and gather regularly with other believers have never read the Bible through even once. Billions are going on hearsay! Not only what is written, but the living God who has shed His blood to make a way of direct access to Him have been passed over by those who claim they know and their own systems of approval demonstrate they are meant to decide for us. Those who are meant to be betrothed as a chaste virgin to one husband are instead committing adultery with the religious systems and their other mediators. They promote this ignorance, specially by what they do. They are NOT the arbiters of what is true and right and good. You really need to prayerfully think this over.
The word "hell" is pasted over several underlying words that are spelled different from one another with no claim in the text that they are in any way equivalent to each other, words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. This is but the beginning of facts about this matter. Words like "for ever, everlasting, perpetual, eternal" are use in the Bible for durations anywhere from a day, to Jonah's three day forever, to a lifetime, to several hundred years, to every everlasting hill shall be brought low on an earth that is established forever that shall melt with a fervent heat. Those who continue to use words like "hell" and "eternal" display not only their ignorance, but many thus make known they are outright rebels who refuse to bend their stiff necks to the written revelation of the Christian God. What do you do with Bible facts?!
There are things that are not very difficult you can look into and find out for yourself, things God's anointing Presence bears witness to as you enter on into studying them. Is God the psychotic schizophrenic Master Torturer who creates and sustains countless billions of sentient beings for the sole purpose of torturing them ceaselessly for ever, all the while whispering in their ears, "I love you?" Remember, He's making you in His image and likeness too. You don't have to wonder about this very long because the Bible, the Holy Spirit and ordinary reason make it quite clear...and there are many people who have studied it out before you who can help.
So you want us to answer if milk was black would we drink it anyway? if good was evil and evil good, would we do evil that good would come of it? IF THE BIBLE WAS A FALSE AND EVIL BOOK WOULD WE BELIEVE IT ANYWAY?! IF GOD WAS A WORSE DEVIL THAN THE DEVIL WOULD WE SERVE HIM ANYWAY?!!
Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-14-2010 at 07:21 AM..
Eternal Torment is age lasting, and ended at the close of the Mosaic age. The only record Biblically of people tormented in Hell are Jews, covenantal people, bound to the reverse effects of apostacy. Anyone outside of covenant with God is dead and without the spirit of life. They simply, return to the dust from whence they came. The only person that is given eternal life, is those who believe in Christ. Consistency behooves you to search the scripture further.
I haven't been around the forum for a while, seems you have changed your opinion since our last discussions?, I'm a bit curious to know what the reason was
to answer the question, if maybe only a few people would suffer everlasting torment, maybe people I hated, maybe I wouldn't mind, but to me it is a contradiction in terms that a good and righteous God would inflict everlasting torment on any being; but who would want to spend eternity with an allmighty, evil and unrighteous entity?
And which translation would that be? I am all ears. And yet the question is avoided. This thead is not about UR theology, but about..., well just the OP.
But the UR folk would rather sidetrack this thread than address whether they would go with God if He didn't go with their theology. Food for thought.
People will consider me UR and I answered your question and am not ashamed of my answer. Pehaps this rant of yours here merely exposes why you started the thread in the first place. Don't whine just because someone saw through you.
To answer your next question
I believe there are three translations that I am personally aware of that not only do not contain the word hell but do not mention the terms everlasting, eternity or eternal.
The concordant literal version, Youngs literal and Rotherham emphasized.
However, the translation has never been an issue for me in the first place, my beliefs can be supported with any translation because I go to the greek and hebrew definitions. I do not need to call mistranslation, but I can believe we misinterpret.
He would not be able to wipe away the tears i would be weeping eternally for all those suffering in eternal torment , whether they be family,friends or stranger.
But praise be to God !!!!!!!!!!! What is impossible with man is possible with God . His arm is not short to save .
Doesn't that mean it will not be impossible for Him to wipe away your tears.
Doesn't that mean it will not be impossible for Him to wipe away your tears.
Could you rephrase that question? It's not making any sense to me. If you mean God CAN'T, then He most certainly can. If you mean God won't, then He most certainly will. Pcamps was just stating that if ET were true, then God would find it nearly impossible to wipe away the tears of those weeping for those burning in hell. That just tells me that since God promised to wipe away all tears and suffering, then the ET hell CANNOT be true.
Could you rephrase that question? It's not making any sense to me. If you mean God CAN'T, then He most certainly can. If you mean God won't, then He most certainly will. Pcamps was just stating that if ET were true, then God would find it nearly impossible to wipe away the tears of those weeping for those burning in hell. That just tells me that since God promised to wipe away all tears and suffering, then the ET hell CANNOT be true.
Well, pcamps said God would not be able to wipe away his tears, and then right away he defeated his own argument by saying nothing is impossible for God.
In other words it is very much possible for God to wipe away our tears.
Well, pcamps said God would not be able to wipe away his tears, and then right away he defeated his own argument by saying nothing is impossible for God.
In other words it is very much possible for God to wipe away our tears.
Yes God could give us all lobotomies and force us to forget about the fact that he is torturing most humans with infinite sufferings for eternity. Or he could harden our hearts and make us enjoy and be thankful for the torture of most humans for eternity ...
Just like he can change the hearts and minds of all people and heal the wickedness and unbelief of all wicked and unbelieving people and save them ...
I believe like the scriptures teach, that he will in fact drag all men to himself and bring all things together in one in himself by healing all the peoples of the nations.
While many other Christians will believe that he will torture most humans forever for nor reason whatsoever and then force the rest of us to either forget about or agree with how violent and hateful he really is and how he returns evil for evil throughout eternity by torturing the vast majority of humans for all eternity.
After all there are already many Christians who are happy about the fact that most people will suffer forever in eternal torture, though many of them wont admit it. If it is true divine justice, whats not to like?
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-14-2010 at 10:30 AM..
The reason I answered how I did was for two reasons.
1. I simply do not see scripture at the very root of the ancient greek and hebrew languages and word definition to paint the picture of never ending suffering anywhere.
2. I observe people who have embraced the true logical conclusion of a God whoi's divine justice or plan, or will to include eternal suffering and I simply will not become them unless God indeed changes me against my own will.
The latter should be explained.
There is a BBC documentary on the Fred Phelps family and his daughter and one of his granddaughter I believe actually exhibit a responce that if eternal hell is real, then it makes perfect sense that they are joyful about it.
You have to watch the documentary to get a good impact about it, but the reporter asked her two direct questions.
First was if she believed he was going to hell, she said yes.
Secondly he asked if she was glad about that.
She answered that if that's Gods will then why shouldn't she be happy about it.
Sure, it is possible that Fred Phelps and company all speak the truth, but I simply will not become that.
Fred Phelps will say I am going to hell and they all cheer.
God will have to wipe my mind to embrace that.
Can God do that? Oh I suppose He can.
The real question is 5150, if you believe God has truly designed endless suffering of any matter, then what prevents you from being happy about it?
I haven't been around the forum for a while, seems you have changed your opinion since our last discussions?, I'm a bit curious to know what the reason was
to answer the question, if maybe only a few people would suffer everlasting torment, maybe people I hated, maybe I wouldn't mind, but to me it is a contradiction in terms that a good and righteous God would inflict everlasting torment on any being; but who would want to spend eternity with an allmighty, evil and unrighteous entity?
No wonder you believe what you do and fallen for .... "all will be saved" , rather the truth of God's word.....
The scripture bears witness against your testimony in this post......
1 John 2:11
But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
I John 4:20-21
If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.
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And yet the question is avoided. This thead is not about UR theology, but about..., well just the OP.
No wonder you believe what you do and fallen for .... "all will be saved" , rather the truth of God's word..... 
