Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, pcamps said God would not be able to wipe away his tears, and then right away he defeated his own argument by saying nothing is impossible for God.
In other words it is very much possible for God to wipe away our tears.
No Finn unless i was lobotomized by the Lord (which is not impossible for Him to do, but like all who believe in the same vain as you would say "he forces nothing on us") that He would never be able to wipe away the tears i would be weeping for all suffering caused by a god that would do such a thing , especially when the Lord i know and believe in who i am convinced He is God by nature and character, all of a sudden turned into somebody that would make Hitler look like an angel.
What is possible on the other hand has i mentioned is that His arm is not short to save, infact He's mighty to save!!!!!!!!!!!! , He can open the eyes of the blind (those who are heading to ET according to the doctrine of ET) , he actually does this without force and free of charge Matthew 8 verse 17 and no lobotomy needed.
I also believe the tears He wipes away are not tears from having seen family,friends and strangers cast into eternal frames , but from a combination of seeing how much man really fell and His marvellous plan to redeem mankind back to Himself
Just like he can change the hearts and minds of all people and heal the wickedness and unbelief of all wicked and unbelieving people and save them ...
Yes, he will so, if you want him to, but he will not force anyone to submit to His will.
Quote:
I believe like the scriptures teach, that he will in fact drag all men to himself and bring all things together in one in himself by healing all the peoples of the nations.
The scriptures teach that only those who believe will be saved. This message is repeated nearly 200 times in the Bible, so there is no misunderstanding it. Those who say otherwise either have not read the Bible, or deliberately misrepresent it.
Quote:
While many other Christians will believe that he will torture most humans forever for nor reason whatsoever and then force the rest of us to either forget about or agree with how violent and hateful he really is and how he returns evil for evil throughout eternity by torturing the vast majority of humans for all eternity.
The Bible is very clear that it is not for "no reason whatsoever". It describes the reason very clearly, and it is repeated so many times, that there is simply no excuse to misunderstand it. Only those who deliberately disregard the core teaching of the Bible would say it is for "no reason whatsoever".
Quote:
After all there are already many Christians who are happy about the fact that most people will suffer forever in eternal torture, though many of them wont admit it. If it is true divine justice, whats not to like?
I don't know anyone who is happy about it. It just happens to be a fact of live. Cancer exists too, but that doesn't mean that acknowledging its existence means people celebrate it. It is what it is. It won't go away by ignoring it.
No Finn unless i was lobotomized by the Lord (which is not impossible for Him to do, but like all who believe in the same vain as you would say "he forces nothing on us") that He would never be able to wipe away the tears i would be weeping for all suffering caused by a god that would do such a thing , especially when the Lord i know and believe in who i am convinced He is God by nature and character, all of a sudden turned into somebody that would make Hitler look like an angel.
If you do not believe God can perform a simple task of wiping away tears, then how can you believe he is capable of anything at all?
If you do not believe God can perform a simple task of wiping away tears, then how can you believe he is capable of anything at all?
I explained quite clearly what i believe to be true about wiping away tears in my last post(which proves that i do believe He can wipe away tears) and it's nothing to do with God wiping away tears from us because we have seen our loved ones eternally burning in flames of torment.
If you believe in a god that has to lobotomize someone to forget the horrors he's performed on your loved ones that's you perogative(because lobotomizing me is the only possible way is the only way i could forget it) .
As for me and my house the Lord God we love and know would never do such a thing to our loved ones , because it's not in Him to do it .
If you believe in a god that has to lobotomize someone to forget the horrors he's performed on your loved ones that's you perogative(because lobotomizing me is the only possible way is the only way i could forget it)
You are the only one here who has been talking about lobotomies, so I don't get your assertion that I believe in God having to lobotomize anyone. Lobotomy is not necessary since the Bible teaches that we will be given heavenly bodies, and therefore there is no need for surgical procedures designed for earthly bodies.
Quote:
As for me and my house the Lord God we love and know would never do such a thing to our loved ones , because it's not in Him to do it
If he backed down on his word about judgment, he would be liar, and that won't happen because it is impossible for god to lie. Again, the Bible repeats nearly 200 times that only those who believe in Him will be saved, and the unbelievers will be lost. If you worry about your loved ones, as you claim, then the worst possible thing you can do is tell them they are saved without faith in Christ. You may not realize it, but you are actually leading them to destruction. If you think you are going to weep over them for eternity, you need to remember that you had your chance to tell them the truth, but you chose to teach them something else.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 10-14-2010 at 12:16 PM..
After years of following Jesus daily the apostles were not as yet converted. In the evening of the last Passover Jesus tells Peter:
"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fall not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32).
Yes indeed, "…when you are converted…." And just when might that be? Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course.
John 15:16. "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…"
Romans 9:16. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but OF GOD that shows mercy."
James 4:13-15 "Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor, which appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. For that ye ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
The scriptures teach that only those who believe will be saved. This message is repeated nearly 200 times in the Bible, so there is no misunderstanding it. Those who say otherwise either have not read the Bible, or deliberately misrepresent it.
The Bible is very clear that it is not for "no reason whatsoever". It describes the reason very clearly, and it is repeated so many times, that there is simply no excuse to misunderstand it. Only those who deliberately disregard the core teaching of the Bible would say it is for "no reason whatsoever".
I don't know anyone who is happy about it. It just happens to be a fact of live. Cancer exists too, but that doesn't mean that acknowledging its existence means people celebrate it. It is what it is. It won't go away by ignoring it.
The truth will stand and religion will fall. It has been prophesied.
The message that the ELECT are saved right now is very clear in the Bible. Saved meaning they are with "spiritual health." That is all saved means. Spiritual health (salve=ointment on the soul)
Only a remnant were saved when God judged people in the Old Testament, here on this planet, in this time. Only a remnant were saved when Jerusalem fell in 70 A.D, and there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. Only a remnant are saved at any point in time on this planet. If you KNOW God, you have him, and he IS eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever BELIEVETH ON HIM, has eternal life (and you CANNOT believe unless you are elected). You are NOT eternal, but he is. Therefore, you HAVE eternal life.
The SEA of humanity will rejoice one day. As they say, if the Bible says it, I believe it. That, you can count on!
So you want us to answer if milk was black would we drink it anyway? if good was evil and evil good, would we do evil that good would come of it? IF THE BIBLE WAS A FALSE AND EVIL BOOK WOULD WE BELIEVE IT ANYWAY?! IF GOD WAS A WORSE DEVIL THAN THE DEVIL WOULD WE SERVE HIM ANYWAY?!!
Yes, he will so, if you want him to, but he will not force anyone to submit to His will.
[22] Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. [23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. [24] Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. [25] In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. (Isa 45:22-25 KJV)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
The scriptures teach that only those who believe will be saved. This message is repeated nearly 200 times in the Bible, so there is no misunderstanding it. Those who say otherwise either have not read the Bible, or deliberately misrepresent it.
9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching. (1 Timothy 4:9-11; Concordant Literal Translation)
[22] Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. [23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. [24] Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. [25] In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. (Isa 45:22-25 KJV)
You better believe every knee will bend at the day of judgment, when it is clear for all to see that God actually existed. For many, however, the bending of the knee will not save them from the judgment. Saying that every knee will bend does not mean everyone will be forced into salvation.
Quote:
9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching. (1 Timothy 4:9-11; Concordant Literal Translation)
Yes, the title of Jesus Christ is 'saviour', just like Barak Obama's title is 'president'. I did not vote for Obama, but he is still the president whether I like it or not. Jesus is only saviour in the universe, whether people accept it or reject it. Him having that title does not mean Jesus will force everyone into salvation. Those who reject it, will be doomed to eternal destruction.
You offer the same cherrypicked universalist talking points which have been explained here over and over. How anyone can cling to two verses which can be understood in many ways, while disregarding 200 crystal clear verses saying the exact opposite is beyond me, but then again wanton disregard of the scriptures has always been the telltale sign of a false teaching.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It does not get any clearer than that.
Revelation 21 "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
You really need to research your paradigm further, as it appears you haven't, based on this statement alone. Origen developed his doctrine from the various thoughts Clement of Alexandria entertained, but never was fully convinced of. CA was a pagan, brought up in hellenisitc philosophy, which is rooted in Stoic and Gnostic idealogies.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
