Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If Christ represents all mankind as "one", and that "one paid the price, then all mankind is free to be liberated upon gaining knowledge of that "one'.
If you want to call that "universalism" that's OK, for Christ did not die for a few..... but for all, save the "one".
The "one" that was judged, condemned and sent to hell, in place of all, was Jesus!
So what does that mean?
It means God granted us life as a free gift without exception ans unconditionally.
The problem is whether we want to believe it or not, for if we believe it, we are born again and life has begun, but if not, that we are still condemned as still lost and in need of saving.
Here are the choices:
1.Believe and trust in Jesus now and begin your life that will never end.
or
2. Continue on in your present state of belief, whatever that may be without Jesus, and life will be delayed until you do or until the physical dies. At that point you spirit bows down at the feet of Jesus at which time, you shall and will recognize Him as God and be saved.
Condemnation and loss of life (eternal life) is a temporary condition with a great expense to the individual who delays.
That was very well said, but especially the part I quoted above. Thanks for that!
Christ died for all men -> that is universal, his death applies universally.
So in Adam all became sinners & death came on all -> that is another universal - all became sinners in Adam.
So in Christ all will be made righteous and be made alive -> all universally will be made righteous and alive.
The rest is just a debate on the timing of it all.
It is same as telling someone they won't die if they jump off a building.
The number of times you repeat these lies about Christian Universalism in this forum alone presents a ponderous sin burden Finn. You know we believe we reap what we sow . . . so I cannot understand your continuing to lie about it . . . and use a bunch of LOL's in your debate with pcamps. Are you that irresponsible in your faith that you think it is a joke??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
Indeed.
UR teaches that regardless of the decisions you make in this life you will be OK in the end.
That is a lie too . . . what you build or do not build on the foundation Jesus built connecting us to God (reconciling us) will be tested . . . but we will ALL be saved as if by fire . . . because Jesus did that part for us.
Quote:
What Jesus said: that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
This says NOTHING about what the "condemned" entails. It certainly means "reap what we sow" . . . not some uniform eternal consequence with no relationship to our acts or state of mind.
Quote:
What John said: He who believes on/into the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Condemned, perish, not see life. Words that carry meaning. Either one believes what is written or ignores what is written. I see nothing that says "not to worry, even if you don't believe in the Son (in this life) you'll be OK".
It's a good thing no one is claiming "not to worry . . ." The wrath is simply the consequence of violating God's law. There are always consequences . . . like violating the law of Gravity . . . but there is no punishment nor vengeance, nor anger, nor any other negative human emotion involved. The only ways to avoid the consequence of violating God's spiritual laws is to repent in this life by attuning yourself to Christ's perfect love for us all by following His commands to "love God and each other" . . . OR . . . face the consequences after rebirth as Spirit after physical death. The duration of remorse, regret, weeping and gnashing of teeth during spiritual "refinement" will be equivalent to the amount of damage you caused in this life without repentance.
Based on the actions of christians, not their rhetoric, I stand by my statement.
How many Christians, and in what context do you find these Christians expressing desire that most people burn in Hell? What are they saying or doing that leads you to believe this? Please be specific.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
I know I've explained this many times on this forum, but I may as well explain it one more time. These verses do not in anyway contradict the possibility of universal salvation.
The fact of the matter is if we are to understand these verses the way the ETers mean them to be understood, then none of us are saved, because we have all "believeth not" at one point in our life, therefore we were "condemned already" and did not "see life" - God's wrath "abideth on" us.
Yet here we are now, hoping/claiming to be saved.
What these verses show is that while one is not believing in God, they do not "see life" - they do not have eonian life - which simply means they do not know God, for that is what eonian life is defined as (John 17:3): KNOWING GOD.
Yet when one comes to believe - then they will have eonian life: THEY WILL KNOW GOD.
Praise God, all will eventually know God, for there will be a universal acknowledgment and turning back to God when all universally bow before Him and swear allegiance to Him and praise His name.
What John said: He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Condemned, perish, not see life. Words that carry meaning. Either one believes what is written or ignores what is written.
Mr5150, I just explained what those verses say, I believe what is written.
If one believes, they will see life. Why do you not believe that?
Quote:
I see nothing that says "not to worry, even if you don't believe in the Son (in this life) you'll be OK".
Mat 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Why should we not worry?
Romans 9:16 Everything then depends on God's mercy and not on what people want or do.[CEV]
BECAUSE IT ALL DEPENDS ON GOD.
And does God want?
1 Tim 2:4 ...who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
The number of times you repeat these lies about Christian Universalism in this forum alone presents a ponderous sin burden Finn. You know we believe we reap what we sow . . . so I cannot understand your continuing to lie about it . . . and use a bunch of LOL's in your debate with pcamps. Are you that irresponsible in your faith that you think it is a joke??
It is not a lie. You claim everyone is saved, so it is indeed same as telling someone they will not die if they jump off a skyscraper. You are telling them they might twist an ankle, but not to worry, because they won't die.
No, my faith is not a joke, it is the "you are a moloch worshipper" comments from you people which I consider a joke.
It is not a lie. You claim everyone is saved, so it is indeed same as telling someone they will not die if they jump off a skyscraper. You are telling them they might twist an ankle, but not to worry, because they won't die.
That is a ridiculous analogy Finn.
If someone jumps off a skyscraper, they will die horribly. That is a fact.
But when it comes to death, no one knows what will exactly happen on the other side. We have some NDEs, and thats about it.
Yes we can go on what the words in the bible say, but that is what is up for debate. God will have all men to be saved and all men will bow and swear allegiance to God.
It is not a lie. You claim everyone is saved, so it is indeed same as telling someone they will not die if they jump off a skyscraper. You are telling them they might twist an ankle, but not to worry, because they won't die.
You just repeated the lie again. Are you obsessive compulsive or what? Jesus saved our entire species from a permanent separation from God. That has nothing to do with what we sow and must reap for our life on this earth. You are in for a major shock if you think what you do here has no consequences just because you believe Jesus saved humankind on the cross.
Quote:
No, my faith is not a joke, it is the "you are a moloch worshipper" comments from you people which I consider a joke.
Pcamps does get carried away because of the intransigence and deliberate retention of the ancient ignorance without any willingness to read and consider the rationales he is presenting. You have admitted as much . . . and are the chief offender of spouting rote condemnations of something you admit you do not bother to try to read or understand. Pcamps can be excused for getting overly aggravated by such deliberate refusal even to consider other views.
Ash, you got it completely backwards. Believing in universal salvation is a very dangerous belief. If it is false, you will end up in hell needlessly and if you only understood that there was actually a chance you could go to hell, you might have acted differently. Accountability does effect a person's actions.
Funny though; it was the belief in eternal torment that drove me away from Christianity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
