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That is so wrong! Hell is the reason Jesus paid such a HIGH price on the cross Jesus believed it that's why He provided the way for us to escape it. He left His throne and glory to die an excruciating death to keep us out of hell.
ILNC you will have to provide a scripture to show what you believe.
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Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA If hell doesn't exist (and we know it does) then Jesus paid a HIGH price for nothing.
No where does it say that Jesus died so we wouldn't have to go to hell. Jesus didn't die for "nothing". Jesus died to save us from our sin and DEATH.
That is so wrong! Hell is the reason Jesus paid such a HIGH price on the cross Jesus believed it that's why He provided the way for us to escape it. He left His throne and glory to die an excruciating death to keep us out of hell.
Emotionalism doesn't change the fact that hell is not in scripture.
“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
Are you saying the story of the wedding is supposed to say people will burn forever? I don't think deciding not to attend a wedding and refusing to escape a burning house are the same thing at all.
Honestly Ilene, it is not God who is leading you, it is Legonan. It seems you believe whatever he says, and yesterday he used a convoluted argument which was a clear attepmt to twist the truth, but you embraced it anyway. You said it was an eye-opener, althought it was a classic subterfuge based on KJV translation of Hades. They use it all the time, and it has been exposed over and over.
Wow. Why are you so disrespectful Finn? Not only to me, but to Ilene. Sheesh.
You make vague accusations about "twisting the truth" and "subterfuge", yet it is you who fail to address the scripture and fail to address the argument. So far I have not seen you actually address the scriptures I have posted, you simply whine about "twisting the truth" and claim there is a hell because you somehow know there is a hell. If it can be shown in this thread that there is no hell, why continue to claim there must be a hell?
It is you who munge and confuse words together suggesting there is a "temporary" hell and a "permanent" hell when the scriptures speak of no such thing. The lake of fire is not "hell" either - the scriptures never call it that. Sorry if I have offended you by pointing this out, but it is clear if you actually look at the scriptures with an honest and open mind.
You need to understand that all scripture is in harmony. You cannot use Luke 16 or Eph 4:8 to contradict what the OT says on sheol, because then you are claiming the bible contradicts itself! The solution is to study both passages and realize that you may be misinterpreting one of them. In this case the parable of the rich man is grossly misunderstood. By nature, parables are not always easy to understand. The multitude didn't understand Jesus' parables, even His own disciples didn't understand His parables until He explained them.
The purpose of this thread is to unravel and untwist the mainstream teaching of hell, based on what scripture actually says. So I say again you are simply being disruptive by making ad-hominem attacks and accusations. Why don't you try to be more constructive - if you disagree explain why and address the points made instead of throwing out veiled accusations and rhetoric. But I suppose when you cannot defend your own doctrine it is easier to complain about and accuse others.
That is so wrong! Hell is the reason Jesus paid such a HIGH price on the cross Jesus believed it that's why He provided the way for us to escape it. He left His throne and glory to die an excruciating death to keep us out of hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
No where does it say that Jesus died so we wouldn't have to go to hell. Jesus didn't die for "nothing". Jesus died to save us from our sin and DEATH.
ILNC, if Jesus died an "excruciating death to keep us out of hell," who is the "us?" Is the "us" only a chosen few? If not, did Jesus succeed?
Originally Posted by legoman
I agree it most definitely does not say that He took the Christian souls from the good side of hades... you really have to read into the text to even see that.
Ironmaw, have you seen Ray Smith's take on this verse? He talks about it here in response to this email: L. Ray Smith - Emails 6
Just interested in your thoughts.
YLT says: `Having gone up on high he led captive captivity, and gave gifts to men,'
Okay i read that response, and again i say that i agree with him. Whichever translation one believes to be more accurate(and again i agree the YLT or Concordant literal are much better translations that the NIV, especially where this verse is concerned) the interpretation is the same though from a different perspective. The interpretation which i derive from the words of the NIV is that God set free creation from captivity to sin and corruption through Christ death and resurrection. While the interpretation i derive from the better translation of the YLT is that God through the wok of Christ on the cross led captive the captivity of sin and corruption so as to liberate the creation.
Thanks Ironmaw.
I doubt Finn will acknowledge this, but I agree with you. In fact so does the footnote in the Amplified bible. I just found this on biblegateway.com:
Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive [He led a train of [*]vanquished foes] and He bestowed gifts on men.
The footnote [*] is this: Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Holy Bible: "He conquered those who had conquered us--such as sin, the devil, and death."
This verse is not talking about Christ setting anyone free from Hades. It is talking about Christ taking "captivitiy" captive, by which is meant the enemies of humanity: sin, death, the devil.
Are you saying the story of the wedding is supposed to say people will burn forever?
That's pretty dishonest of you. Go back and see what question I was replying to. You claimed there was no such thing as invitation in the Bible, and my answer proved you dead wrong.
But now that you mention it, the story ends with a person being cast out of the party into a place where weeping and gnashing of teeth:
Wow. Why are you so disrespectful Finn? Not only to me, but to Ilene. Sheesh.
No foul language please Your true colors are showing.
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You make vague accusations about "twisting the truth" and "subterfuge", yet it is you who fail to address the scripture and fail to address the argument.
Sheol, Hades, lake of file, Gehenna, Tartarus and Abyss have all been discussed and explained on this thread using proof from the Bible, so there is no failure to explain it. There has only been failure to accept the word of God, and that failure is on your side.
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Jesus believed it that's why He provided the way for us to escape it. He left His throne and glory to die an excruciating death to keep us out of hell.
Your true colors are showing. 