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They sacrificed then to moloch, a false god. They lost their way, much like the modern day atheists, cultists, universalists etc who do not believe the word of God anymore.
So, people that lose their way do terrible things sometimes? I agree. Last I checked the Universalists are all about love your enemies; black-white-purple-polkadotted-etc. They really aren't big into setting people on fire. The last big newsmaker coming from traditional Christianity was the woman who tried to save her children from the eternal BBQ and drowned them. The fruit is not only bad concerning this doctrine, it's rancid!
And about Moloch!!
Do you think God is a better God than moloch? He HATED how cruel the pagan gods were that humans kept worshipping!
And you are going to tell me that God is going to set human beings that He died to save on fire for eternity? Because they don't know Him?
Sigh.
RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH! For HIS GLORY!
LOVE!! GOD IS LOVE!!! Religion has made a mockery of His love.
Check the religious fruits of this planet for the last 4000 years or more. The fruits have NOT been love, joy, peace. NO! The fruits have been HOLY WARS, violence, killing your enemies, killing people that disagree with you, taking advantage of nations around you, etc. Christianity (well, religion period), for the most part, has behaved no differently than the Jews were behaving, and how long was God patient with them? Hundreds of years patient? How much longer do you think we have?
I'm sure God will be pleased.
Last edited by herefornow; 05-12-2010 at 09:04 PM..
And you think God is a better God than moloch? He HATED how cruel the pagan gods were that humans kept worshipping!
And you are going to tell me that God is going to set human beings that He died to save on fire for eternity? Because they don't know Him?
Sigh.
RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH! For HIS GLORY!
LOVE!! GOD IS LOVE!!! Religion has made a mockery of it.
Check the religious fruits of this planet for the last 4000 years or more. NOT love, joy, peace. NO! HOLY WARS, violence, etc.
I'm sure God will be pleased.
Yeah, that is funny ... He claims the believers in UR are like the worshipers of Moloch ... Id say his version of God who will torture people in everlasting fire sounds much more like Moloch than just about any pagan entity. Even Moloch didn't burn people for ever, just until they died.
In reference to the worship of Moloch, god said it never even crossed his mind to do such a thing(sacrifice humans by fire), yet the ETers claim he will torture most of creation for ever in fire ...
Its amazing to me that in 700+ posts on a thread about the word "HELL" that no one has actually answered the old testament verses about sheol yet (remember this thread is not supposed to be another UR vs ET debate). These were posted in the first few posts of the thread. They show that:
Sheol is a place of darkness, a place of silence, a place where everyone goes; there is no knowledge or device there; its where the dead "sleep"; the wicked go there in peace, even God is there (He's omnipresent); sheol is destroyed and people are redeemed from sheol.
Of course no one actually addresses those verses. Instead the "best" argument so far is that the Rich Man and Abraham had a conversation there, so therefore the old testament description of hades is "wrong" I suppose... ? Can scripture contradict scripture? Of course if we understand that Luke 16 is a parable with another meaning, then there is no contradiction. But that can't be right because that would defeat the idea of eternal torment in hell!
How about the descriptions of "furnace of fire", "unquenchable fire" - people assume these references to fire are talking about hell, simply because it mentions fire. So some more unanswered questions:
Why is "furnace of fire" supposed to mean hell?
Do you know God is a consuming fire? But surely we don't think God is hell.
In Mark 9:49, right after Jesus warns of Gehenna, He tells us that everyone will be salted with fire. Does that mean everyone is going to be salted with hell?
Its like people want to believe in "hell" instead of researching what the bible actually says about it...
Legoman..
On Sheol.....looking and reading all the definitions of the word Sheol/Hades in its usd in the scriptures, it seems it is a descriptive definition from a carnal man's understanding.
Hopefully I dont confuse you OR MYSELF here, LOL, but when our loved ones die we instinctively 'know' who they were when they were alive. Now carnal mans mind wants to know where they are 'now' while there dead, because they still have memories of them. But scriptually, taking the 'spirit' from the 'body' (spirit + body = soul) renders the soul 'non existant'. That is until God joins a man's spirit back to another body again. This makes alot of sense when looking at all the defintions for sheol/hades and what is experienced or rather 'not experienced' while in it. I think myths have added to the notion of a soul 'being somewhere', if you know what I mean, simply because the way a person's mind works. A person was alive (we saw, talked, experienced them) and now they are dead (we still KNOW them though), which renders us with a question of WHERE they are. I see in scriptures, when studying, a 'living soul' and a 'dead soul'. But a 'dead soul' is dead to people that KNEW them. I think in a nutshell that sheol is a 'no where' a 'non existence' if you can understand that.
To choose to love those you have seen IS to love God. That is what I am saying. Love God, who first loved you, by loving others.
It is all hypothetical... even the concept of salvation itself is hypothetical... All I know for sure is that upon realizing that God would not let even the least of us go because he loves us is when I truly began to see God. God's greatest wish is for us to love one another... not escape some afterlife filled with torment!
Also, you say that God won't force salvation or love... but is loving someone until they love you back forced love? or is it a fulfillment of God's will that men come to the knowledge of him through love?
"...........but is loving someone until they love you back forced love?" You make a great point kat
Trust me. A lot of people do not believe or understand because the god of this world has BLINDED them. Blinded them to God's character, blinded them as to what God is doing, blinded them into thinking we are all alone and without hope, and on and on.
How many people would, truthfully, if they KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that there was a beautiful, peaceful, immortal, POWERFUL LIGHT, choose instead to be lit on fire! Have you ever been set on fire? I have! (don't ask)
NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY chooses to be set on fire for eternity! And the God I serve DOES NOT SET PEOPLE ON FIRE FOR ETERNITY!
Think about this!
People love the darkness because this is all they know.
He concludeth ALL in unbelief to have mercy on ALL!
He is busy reconciling things in HEAVEN and EARTH! What in the heavens needs to be reconciled???
All true....and even God BLINDING them had a purpose as well. There is a purpose for everything He does.
On Sheol.....looking and reading all the definitions of the word Sheol/Hades in its usd in the scriptures, it seems it is a descriptive definition from a carnal man's understanding.
Hopefully I dont confuse you OR MYSELF here, LOL, but when our loved ones die we instinctively 'know' who they were when they were alive. Now carnal mans mind wants to know where they are 'now' while there dead, because they still have memories of them. But scriptually, taking the 'spirit' from the 'body' (spirit + body = soul) renders the soul 'non existant'. That is until God joins a man's spirit back to another body again. This makes alot of sense when looking at all the defintions for sheol/hades and what is experienced or rather 'not experienced' while in it. I think myths have added to the notion of a soul 'being somewhere', if you know what I mean, simply because the way a person's mind works. A person was alive (we saw, talked, experienced them) and now they are dead (we still KNOW them though), which renders us with a question of WHERE they are. I see in scriptures, when studying, a 'living soul' and a 'dead soul'. But a 'dead soul' is dead to people that KNEW them. I think in a nutshell that sheol is a 'no where' a 'non existence' if you can understand that.
Any thoughts?
According to the book of Revelation and the book of Enoch, hell is not God's final judgment against stubborn, Christ-rejecting mankind. In Revelation 20:13-15 "And the sea gave up the dead whichwere in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire(significance, the lake of fire is explained in this scripture as a separate place)this is the second death And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Revelation 20:5 (see verse 4) "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years are finished this is the first resurrection." remember when Jesus told the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Verse 23 says the rich man was in hell. However, verse 22 says the rich man was buried. Remember, the apostle Paul said through the Holy Spirit "we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed." When? at the 7th trumpet(1corinthians15:52, see revelation 10:7, 11:15)
Notice, the rich man's body was buried, but he remembered he had 5 brothers, he experienced thirst also. Hell is where the soul is held captive until the resurrection of the person's physical body according to these scriptures I mentioned. The person remembers their life according to Jesus, remembers their food and drink, has the same desires, and the same will.
Notice, the rich man did not ask for a second chance, he only wanted to warn his brothers. Revelation makes it clear that those who died at sea will resurrect from the sea.("the sea gave up the dead which was in it." The torment of hell is a mental anguish so devestating that the person feels like they are burning. The lake of fire is the physical torment. In the lake of fire the person has their eternal body and it is burned forever and ever.
In Revelation 14:9-11 the bible declares,"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive a mark in his forehead, or right hand, the same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out wthout mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, which worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
This is why I cut my debates short now. John walked with Jesus and was taught by Jesus. Jesus told the other disciples(mainly Peter,) that John would not see death until he saw the coming of the son of man,(what he wrote in the book of revelation) Now anyone can say "It is not true". However, a statement such as that is very dangerous. It is dangerous because, you were not there. Also, that statement is dangerous because it is your word against the written word of the apostles, and their disciples. Another reason is, we do not know exactly why you choose (when I say You I'm only speaking of those who reject) not to believe.
You could be a coward, scared to offend others, you could be a homosexual/lesbian you could be a person playing anymanyminymo with religion and the bible is not your pick, you could be a barhopping drunkard who lives only for the moment, you could be a whoremonger who wants to watch porn and sleep around, you could be a materialistic money loving idolater that has been taught that Christianity is for dummies and preachers only want money. I don't what a person's reason is, but to reject Christ you need to be right that the bible is a fairy tale and you are not.
Prophet Howard po box 90633 Milwaukee, Wi 53209 you can watch my videos on youtube how53225, Prophet Howard May God bless all who read this share it with the unsaved please.
Last edited by ministers; 05-13-2010 at 01:24 AM..
Reason: typos
Last I checked the Universalists are all about love your enemies; black-white-purple-polkadotted-etc.
So were the hippies in the 1960s. Did that buy them a ticket to heaven? The Bible teaches otherwise.
Quote:
Do you think God is a better God than moloch? He HATED how cruel the pagan gods were that humans kept worshipping!
Rule #1: there is only one God, and it ain't moloch. And yes, he is a better God than moloch, but of course moloch didn't actually exist, they people didn't realize they were actually worshipping Satan himself.
You have made your choise: if you don't want to believe what the Bible teaches about life and afterlife, you surely don't have to. You have free will.
On Sheol.....looking and reading all the definitions of the word Sheol/Hades in its usd in the scriptures, it seems it is a descriptive definition from a carnal man's understanding.
Hopefully I dont confuse you OR MYSELF here, LOL, but when our loved ones die we instinctively 'know' who they were when they were alive. Now carnal mans mind wants to know where they are 'now' while there dead, because they still have memories of them. But scriptually, taking the 'spirit' from the 'body' (spirit + body = soul) renders the soul 'non existant'. That is until God joins a man's spirit back to another body again. This makes alot of sense when looking at all the defintions for sheol/hades and what is experienced or rather 'not experienced' while in it. I think myths have added to the notion of a soul 'being somewhere', if you know what I mean, simply because the way a person's mind works. A person was alive (we saw, talked, experienced them) and now they are dead (we still KNOW them though), which renders us with a question of WHERE they are. I see in scriptures, when studying, a 'living soul' and a 'dead soul'. But a 'dead soul' is dead to people that KNEW them. I think in a nutshell that sheol is a 'no where' a 'non existence' if you can understand that.
Any thoughts?
I agree with what you are saying I think - a dead soul is not anywhere. Even though sheol is translated "grave", the more literal meaning is "unseen" or "realm of the dead", in that the dead souls are quite dead - no consciousness, no experience, thus no existence.
That is where those who believe "hell" AKA sheol is a state of conscious torment have a big problem, because the scriptures are quite clear that sheol is a place of resting, peace, silence, darkness, no knowledge, no sound, no device - nothingness - the unseen - you are dead DEAD sleeping - Nothing, nada, zip. A live dog is better than a DEAD lion...
So were the hippies in the 1960s. Did that buy them a ticket to heaven? The Bible teaches otherwise.
IMO, one big problem with traditional Christianity is that it's all about getting that golden ticket to heaven. It's a self-centered message. As long as you and the few people you love the most have that golden ticket, that's all that's really important. The two most important commandments are to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If people did love their neighbor as they love themselves, that one golden ticket would not be nearly enough. Everyone they come into contact with would have to have one, too, for them to be satisfied and have peace and joy. I ranted about this before, but if hell is a literal lake of fire, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!There's NO WAY you can keep commandment #2, and at the same time not run around warning everyone you meet, if you believe they are going to burn forever. NO WAY!
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