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So, everyone has a purpose, and it is up the "potter" to create the pots for difference purposes. Some for noble purposes and some for common use.
Finn, if you are open to it, please read below (from Wikipedia) how/why a potter works with the clay, and consider all the things we've been trying to tell you regarding the UR interpretation of the scriptures about how God will use "fire" to perfect each and every person. It puts a new light on this verse, too. Romans 9:18, "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
Pottery is made by forming a clay body into objects of a required shape and heating them to high temperatures in a kiln to induce reactions that lead to permanent changes, including increasing their strength and hardening and setting their shape. There are wide regional variations in the properties of clays used by potters and this often helps to produce wares that are unique in character to a locality. It is common for clays and other minerals to be mixed to produce clay bodies suited to specific purposes.
Firing produces irreversible changes in the body. It is only after firing that the article can be called pottery. In lower-fired pottery the changes include sintering, the fusing together of coarser particles in the body at their points of contact with each other. In the case of porcelain, where different materials and higher firing-temperatures are used, the physical, chemical and mineralogical properties of the constituents in the body are greatly altered. In all cases the object of firing is to permanently harden the wares and the firing regime must be appropriate to the materials used to make them. As a rough guide, earthenwares are normally fired at temperatures in the range of about 1000 to 1200 degrees Celsius; stonewares at between about 1100 to 1300 degrees Celsius; and porcelains at between about 1200 to 1400 degrees Celsius. However, the way that ceramics mature in the kiln is influenced not only by the peak temperature achieved, but also by the duration of the period of firing. Thus, the maximum temperature within a kiln is often held constant for a period of time to soak the wares, to produce the maturity required in the body of the wares.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 06-09-2010 at 10:08 AM..
Finn, if you are open to it, please read below (from Wikipedia) how/why a potter works with the clay, and consider all the things we've been trying to tell you regarding the UR interpretation of the scriptures about how God will use "fire" to perfect each and every person..
I think I'll stick to the Bible. But thanks for offering Wikipedia piece on pottery.
I think I'll stick to the Bible. But thanks for offering Wikipedia piece on pottery.
Your comment meant nothing except to show your unwillingless to learn the things of God. You know that the potter and the clay are symbolic of God working in the lives of individuals, but you refuse to even learn what that symbolism means. I added another comment right before you posted, which might be food for thought:
This puts a new light on this verse, also. Romans 9:18: "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden."
Question:
Is it necessary to believe in hell in order to go to heaven?
Blessings to all,
brian
Brian,
That's like asking...Is it necessary to believe in heaven in order to go to hell? Heaven and hell exist whether or not you believe in them.the proof that both exists is that Jesus went to hell, and is now in heaven.
The real questions are two fold:
What is necessary to believe in order to get to heaven?
Does your time of grace extend beyond this life on earth?
If your answer to #2 is yes, then #1 has no earthly irrelevancy because you don't need to believe in these to enter heaven.
the One True God
That God is Triune
Jesus as your personal Savior (subjective justification)
The Bible being the only source of absolute, infallible truth to be saved
"By grace" being the reason you're saved
No one self invites themself into heaven. Entrance into heaven is done by permission\invitation by Jesus Matthew 25:34.
Yes, God brought up Pharaoh to destroy him in order to display his power. So, everyone has a purpose, and it is up the "potter" to create the pots for difference purposes. Some for noble purposes and some for common use.
I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion
I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
Admittedly, I have no real idea what is God going to do or why, but if God is as arbitrary as you are saying, how can anyone trust him at all?
How do you know that he didn't prepare you (or anyone else) for destruction? What if your born again experience (or whatever) was just deception? He makes you feel warm and secure so you will be more dumbstruck when you learn the truth?
Won't people honestly following other faiths, (many who have never heard of Christianity or merely heard imperfect version once or twice) be utterly shocked when they find out that they are going to hell because they didn't accept some dude named Christ they are only vaguely familiar with? Won't that be utterly unreasonable for those people?
For that matter how do you know Bible wasn't inspired by Satan? Maybe Jesus was just a good guy (like many people you think are going to hell are) who was deceived into thinking that he is savior by some evil power. Admittedly, I can ask believer of any faith the same, but the question carries even more weight when things you are saying don't make sense.
Look, either there is some comprehensible reason reason for God doing what he does or there isn't. I can see the possible purposes in earthly suffering (teaching people right from wrong, making people mature trough challenge, testing people etc). I don't know exact reason, but there are many possible explanations. There is no comprehensible justification for hell (the one you are describing, at least).
Your comment meant nothing except to show your unwillingless to learn the things of God.
When both sides of the issue say these kinds of statements I have to disagree that it is a reality.
The reason I say this is because two people who disagree on an issue cannot rightly prove that either does not intend to learn the things of God. This is why such statement from both sides that I witness everyday are meaningless.
I disagree with Finn on many items, yet I still found something in another thread that I agree with, but I can't accuse him of not wanting to learn the things of God just because Finn is not convinced by anything I write.
when both sides of the issue say these kinds of statements i have to disagree that it is a reality.
The reason i say this is because two people who disagree on an issue cannot rightly prove that either does not intend to learn the things of god. This is why such statement from both sides that i witness everyday are meaningless.
i disagree with finn on many items, yet i still found something in another thread that i agree with, but i can't accuse him of not wanting to learn the things of god just because finn is not convinced by anything i write.
When both sides of the issue say these kinds of statements I have to disagree that it is a reality.
The reason I say this is because two people who disagree on an issue cannot rightly prove that either does not intend to learn the things of God. This is why such statement from both sides that I witness everyday are meaningless.
I disagree with Finn on many items, yet I still found something in another thread that I agree with, but I can't accuse him of not wanting to learn the things of God just because Finn is not convinced by anything I write.
True... however pottery hasn't changed all that much over the years, so it seems that if someone wasn't being belligerent they would see the analogy of the clay and the potter quite easily.
I perceive a belligerent attitude from Finn and that is why IMO he isn't even trying. I have debated issues with people who truly do take in information and a discussion ensues (check out me and Ironmaw on the trinity thread) yet Finn seems to ignore all things whether there may be a point of discussion or truth in it or not.
It doesn't cost anything to review information but it seems that some are afraid to even look at anything from certain people for fear they will get sucked into the hell-bound crowd...
True... however pottery hasn't changed all that much over the years, so it seems that if someone wasn't being belligerent they would see the analogy of the clay and the potter quite easily.
I perceive a belligerent attitude from Finn and that is why IMO he isn't even trying. I have debated issues with people who truly do take in information and a discussion ensues (check out me and Ironmaw on the trinity thread) yet Finn seems to ignore all things whether there may be a point of discussion or truth in it or not.
It doesn't cost anything to review information but it seems that some are afraid to even look at anything from certain people for fear they will get sucked into the hell-bound crowd...
ALL My humble opinion, of course.
My point stands.
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