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Actually I'm being deadly serious. My positions about Boston come from living there, but more so, reading about it and its history. I at least try to take a learned approach to my love for that city.
Philadelphians come on CD and time after time expouse the virtues and sheer awesomeness of their city, while completely and utterly disregarding simple things like history and the rules for a proper debate.
Mostly they come on here and whine about it, and usually their posts can be deduced to a simple, "Nah-uh" backed up with no empirical evidence and even a few anecdotes to lighten up the mood.
Look - you don't know me. I've lived in Boston and Philly and love both cites nearly equally. If you have issues with the way some other people are posting, take it up with them.
Philly's time as "most important" anything (which even as a statement is highly disputable) was very short. Boston had a good century of most important and New York since the end of the Revolution.
WTH?
Philadelphia was the preeminent city of the colonies. The most populous,most cultured, the original city of the USA.It was the political,banking and cultural capital of the USA when this country came into existence. Its crazy to try and downplay its significance.
While the Bostonian magpies were arguing amongst themselves about who knows what? Taxation without representation, rights/non rights of slaves,rights/non rights of Indians,rights/non rights of anyone who wasnt a puritan or protestant .Meanwhile Down in Philadelphia the Quakers were actually devising and implementing a strategy for the revolution and assemblage of a new government.
Philadelphia was the most populous city from 1700-1830. 2nd most populous city until 1830-1900. How can you say its "time as most important" was very short?
It was the first capital of the USA. Place of the First and Second Continental Congress.Home of the turning point of the revolution Valley Forge. Home to the First ______ Fill in the blank of the USA. And the first or second most populous city for 2/3 of this countrys lifespan.
look at all the world leaders that have been educated in Boston along with the historical ties to important positions in power, there is your answer and why I think Boston still ever so slightly edges out the Bay Area. (in importance) I put more weight on institutions with strong power structures which will stand the test of time, vs ups and downs in economic relevance. I mean who remembers how big IRC was, AOL, Prodigy, WOW, Friendster, GeoCities, Hotmail, Nortel Networks, Bay Area Networks, Sun just got bought out by Oracle, Yahoo used to be much more important also... The reality is that a lot of the companies that are making money, still might be gone. The Bay Area HAS been good recently about another booming cycle with Apple/Google/Facebook relocation leading the way... I have been a tech geek for a long time, and I can guarantee many of the other companies just aren't going to be up there forever. This will come with down cycles in company evaluation, that is just the way it works... So I wouldn't put that much weight on "GDP"
Now where the Bay Area WOULD shine is, in their financial institutions, supreme court and other courts, Stanford (the research coming out of there in last 20 years is amazing), UC Berkeley, and yes Nancy Pelosi IS important, like her or not, she is the highest ranking female official in U.S. history.
This is a great comparison. Personally, I think it's the Bay Area with Boston and Philly each a slight step behind.
First, since the thread has become a history channel forum, I'll start by saying I don't give a crap about that stuff. In the exceptionally fluid world of global capitalism, what happened in the past only matters when determining if a place is worth saving from demolition.
That said, there are 6 major industries where the US still dominates on the world stage (in no particular order):
1. Finance (NYC)
2. Weaponry (DC)
3. Food (Chicago)
4. Technology (SF Bay)
5. Popular Culture (LA)
6. Education (Boston)
7. Healthcare/Pharma (Philly)
Each of these is somewhat slipping these days, except for food and weaponry.
Personally, I'd say that technology is where global capitalism is putting more of its faith in the US today (after longtime standbys Finance, Food and Weaponry). After NYC, nothing compares to the Bay in terms of FDI and VC.
Given that population is pretty similar for each of these choices, I have to go with economic output and amount of investment. The world is putting its money in the Bay, and to me that shows it's most "important."
Philadelphia was the preeminent city of the colonies. The most populous,most cultured, the original city of the USA.It was the political,banking and cultural capital of the USA when this country came into existence. Its crazy to try and downplay its significance.
This is assuming you don't count Boston. Which is fairly typical of the Philadelphian ego. Boston what? John Adams who? Lexington where?
While the Bostonian magpies were arguing amongst themselves about who knows what? Taxation without representation, rights/non rights of slaves,rights/non rights of Indians,rights/non rights of anyone who wasnt a puritan or protestant .Meanwhile Down in Philadelphia the Quakers were actually devising and implementing a strategy for the revolution and assemblage of a new government.
If this this true, it took the wealth and might and prestige of the New England colonies to advance the cause. If the Quakers were doing as you say, I'd love to read about it. Think of it this way, New England was/is the proverbial and literal head the Snake from the don't tread on me flag/cartoon.
Philadelphia was the most populous city from 1700-1830. 2nd most populous city until 1830-1900. How can you say its "time as most important" was very short?
LOL, I don't think so. It's neighbor to the north has been America's largest city since 1790.
It was the first capital of the USA. Place of the First and Second Continental Congress.Home of the turning point of the revolution Valley Forge. Home to the First ______ Fill in the blank of the USA. And the first or second most populous city for 2/3 of this countrys lifespan.
First of all, you should read the census. Second of all, Boston is home to any number of Firsts, so to say one city had more firsts than the other is moot. First public school, first college, first subway, first railroad, first port, first bank, so on and so forth.
but what events in SF took place there that changed the country for all we know of it now?
Financing the Civil War makes me proud.
Quote:
In the first three and one-half years of the Civil War there had passed through the Port of San Francisco $173,083,098[worth of Gold] from the California mines and the Comstock Lode of Nevada. This immense treasure fed the coffers of the Union in its trials with the Confederacy and marked California as a prime target for Southern sympathizers.
In contrast, the Confederacy was starved for cash and credit throughout the entire war. At war's outbreak, there was in the seven Confederate states only $27,000,000 in specie, beyond that lay nothing save the dubious expedients of credit and confidence. To seize gold shipments was the subject of at least two plots.
Furthermore, historically speaking-San Francisco was the first urban environment in the Western half of North America. You couldnt even travel on any navigable roads across the US to where SF was located. LOL.
That's the origin of San Francisco being called "The City"--it started in the 1800s and SF was referred to as "The City" up and down the West Coast. Today its mainly a NorCal thing.
look at all the world leaders that have been educated in Boston along with the historical ties to important positions in power, there is your answer and why I think Boston still ever so slightly edges out the Bay Area. (in importance)
Well most rankings disagree hence Boston is rarely above San Francisco, but we are all entitled to our opinions.
Quote:
So I wouldn't put that much weight on "GDP"
Its the least arbitrary, least subjective measure out there. That's how the world's economies are ranked and I dont know how saying economies are sporadic is different for cities than it is countries.
But I can say that the Bay Area is smaller than Boston but has a FAR LARGER economy. That is no small and dismissable issue.
In fact Im surprised that Philadelphia has a higher Per Capita GDP than Boston as well.
2009(Latest Data Available)
4. San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $535.327 Billion
6. Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $411.505 Billion
9. Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $354.573 Billion
Per Capita Annual Economic Output(GDP)
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $72,078
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA $54,274
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH CSA $54,080
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,032,687 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220
This is a great comparison. Personally, I think it's the Bay Area with Boston and Philly each a slight step behind.
True about the comparison, I'm good at setting comparisons on the table.
To be rather honest, the spots for 5-12 are more or less very closely engaged by quite a few cities. You cant quantify one industry more so than another nor can you quantify how size should be ignored and wealth too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220
First, since the thread has become a history channel forum, I'll start by saying I don't give a crap about that stuff. In the exceptionally fluid world of global capitalism, what happened in the past only matters when determining if a place is worth saving from demolition.
Personally I am in agreement but that stuff does matter to a large extent. It's particularly why Los Angeles being larger both economically and by population than Paris is still outranked by Paris by quite a large margin. These things are very important and should be on the table for a discussion to take place between all of the given cities.
Otherwise, I totally agree, I'm not really much into history myself and haven't ever found the past to be much into the consideration of the future. But many around the world including high ranking analysts put considerable time into that one factor alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220
That said, there are 6 major industries where the US still dominates on the world stage (in no particular order):
1. Finance (NYC)
2. Weaponry (DC)
3. Food (Chicago)
4. Technology (SF Bay)
5. Popular Culture (LA)
6. Education (Boston)
7. Healthcare/Pharma (Philly)
Each of these is somewhat slipping these days, except for food and weaponry.
Hahahaha. What kind of industry is food, never heard of the implication before until now? I might be getting this wrong, but are you implying agriculture? That doesn't have anything to do with Chicago as much as it does with Central Valley for California.
You bring up a great idea with your list but you left out some very important industries in the country which are common practice significantly influential globally, of which left off Energy, Latin American Banking & Finance, & Banking in general, in my opinion. There is no country in the world that is developing green energy at a fast enough rate to catch the United States, which of course is the epicenter in Houston, followed by the Bay Area. Nice, huh? The Bay Area gets another point there for more industries in its pocket. Boston is also extremely good at this too.
If memory serves me right the 4 largest purchasers of Green Energy for development and enhancement in the country are in this order:
- California (Subdivided amongst the major Californian cities)
- Massachusetts (Fueled mostly by the Boston area)
- New York (Split throughout the state)
- Houston (Yes the city purchasing at the level of the states)
Chicago's niche industries are:
- Transportation (Air, Sea, Rail, & Truck)
- Aviation (Largest Airlines, Boeing, Top 4 busiest airport in the world)
- Commodities Exchange (Largest in the world, direct competition is London)
So if I could reedit your list and add other American cities that DO contribute to the country that you didn't mention it would be as such:
- Finance (New York)
- Film Concentration (Los Angeles)
- Transportation (Chicago)
- Energy (Houston)
- Education (Boston)
- Commodities Exchange (Chicago)
- Technology (Bay Area)
- Medical Services (Boston)
- Government (Washington DC)
- Automotive (Detroit)
- Banking (Charlotte (New York also))
- Aviation (Chicago)
- Latin American Finance & Banking (Miami/Fort Lauderdale)
- Pharmaceuticals (Philadelphia)
I think I'm missing one or two more, but I think this should be a greater list for the compilation of irreplaceable industries in the United States. All of these niche's do their duty for whatever city they are in.
All of these industries play a role in the country, you cant quantify any reason why the United States isn't a leading nation in these terms especially when you get foreign investments in the zones for all these specialties, last month an investment from an energy consultant in the Middle East to Southeast Texas, along with fuel costs skyrocketing a record $0.22 within one week.
Every industry plays one role and that's to solidify America's performance throughout each and every sector there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweebo2220
Personally, I'd say that technology is where global capitalism is putting more of its faith in the US today (after longtime standbys Finance, Food and Weaponry). After NYC, nothing compares to the Bay in terms of FDI and VC.
It's not just technology, the global economy is always in a constant state of flux, no industry ever has any lasting power. It's all about what's in demand right now and what will make the world spin, and right now the industries of choice are doing rather well compared to others, this recession in general has taught us what industries were vulnerable this time around. And these things tend to vary, right now government is taking a cut and a backseat with technology indeed getting foreign investments, energy the same way, and medical services attracting foreign investors also.
The genius minds America imports on visas for college entry isn't to be underestimated either, brain power feeds the "giants" within each of those specialized industries. There's literally a nodal point for them all, which is why things like size, location, variation, diversity, & history play a back up role within a city's contributions too.
Overall, between these three (not considering Miami, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Detroit at this point for the sake of this thread) my personal rank would be:
Point is SF doesnt have everything to push it above Boston and Philly. SF and Boston are both basically tied in finance, banking, healthcare, politics, Boston's economy is healthier while SF's is larger, and the only thing that separates them is history. Boston is where the revolution started where hundreds put their lives on the line to give us the country we sit in today. Whats SFs' contribution to history? Nancy Pelosi..
Clearly history dates back before 1776 but what events in SF took place there that changed the country for all we know of it now? I cant think of any that come near Bostons'
Actually Healthcare is one area where Philadelphie is clearly in the lead; Boston and SF do very well in Biotech; Philly no sloutch either but Philly/NJ is the center of healthcare for the world; seriously
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