U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 11-09-2017, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,244 posts, read 3,406,033 times
Reputation: 8787

Advertisements

I would recommend a college like Pepperdine or Wheaton over something like Hillsdale as far as liberal arts colleges that lean conservative politically. Or even Texas A&M if you want to bring big state schools into the picture.

Any college outside the most liberal areas of the country are going to be less liberal & a student can find conservative community there. Many of the top colleges are also in the most liberal bastions of the country like Berkeley, CA or Boston, MA. Just avoid those.

The college I went to was a "Large State University" that pretty much fit all the Animal House stereotypes. It was not particularly political either way; it was simply not an activist campus. There was some flurry of activity circa 2008 was Obama was running for president but it died down after that. We rarely had "free speech days" etc... and even when there were some, the student body did not care. There were student groups of all types and they did their thing.

Hillsdale and Liberty are too much "conservatism first, THEN academics." I know I would look twice on it. Hillsdale at least has somewhat of a reputation for rigor, but being that it's heavily advertised on Rush Limbaugh's show would make me think twice.

 
Old 11-09-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,737 posts, read 59,687,302 times
Reputation: 26895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Percent Off View Post
College should be a broadening experience, not one narrowed by dogma.
That is exactly what Hillsadale says. Are you quoting them or deriding them? It is not clear.
 
Old 11-09-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,737 posts, read 59,687,302 times
Reputation: 26895
He is not looking for a particularly right wing leaning or a liberal arts college. Just a school in Michigan. He does not want to go out of state, or at least not further than Toledo.

He liked Hillsdale because of the small size, gorgeous campus, amount of activity on campus on a Monday, student attitudes (very positive, very friendly and outgoing), class sizes of 15-20 instead of hundreds, and the Music department's reaction to him. He is not thrilled with the liberal extremism of typical public colleges and universities, but not looking for a conservative dogma either. That is one of my questions if someone has attended there. Is it really an uber conservative college (as claimed by liberal extremists), or is it just a non-liberal extremist college and therefore called right wing (as claimed by some people who attended there)? I know they publish Imprimis which is popular with conservatives, but what I saw of it, it is not extremist and mostly just has articles written by famous people and constitutional scholars mostly discussing history. However I have only a seen a couple of issues of it. I know Rush Limbaugh likes Imprimus, but just because an extremist likes it does mot make it extremist. Rush Limbauh may also like ice cream but that does not make ice cream a conservative extremist item.

He thought the English class he attended seemed too Christian oriented and the church they are building dominates the entire campus. While he believes in god and sort of tolerates church, he is not interested in a place where everyone is expected at Chapel each morning, or where only Christian dogma is taught. Do the science classes teach only pure literalist creationism?

What I am really more interest in is how conservative it really is, and whether there is any use for a classical liberal arts education anymore other than as preparation of law school.

I know they refuse federal funding, but we probably do not qualify for any federal support anyway, we make too much money. Nearly a decade ago, they offered my daughter a $27,000 scholarship (singing and academics, and some bit because they were impressed that she started the cultural awareness club in her high school and it got pretty big by the time she graduated), but that left them at about $23,000. At the time, all of the better public schools were in that range or less, Including U-M. However $23,000 was the starting point for them, not the end point and they offered scholarships too. Things have changed though. The state universities have gotten more expensive and they offer fewer scholarship and other incentives.

His best options may well be U-M and Hillsdale at about the same cost.

My son's only exceptional skill, other than academics is trumpet and few to no schools offer significant scholarships for trumpet - no matter how good you are.
 
Old 11-09-2017, 02:15 PM
 
2,244 posts, read 810,909 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

His best options may well be U-M and Hillsdale at about the same cost.
I said it once, I'll say it again. Go Blue!

It is a public education that is widely recognized as one of the best in the country. I think it will open far more doors than a degree from Hillsdale, especially if he ever moves out of state.

If class sizes are a concern, he may also wish to look into Adrian College. If he's a good student, some of these smaller colleges will throw money at him to attend.
 
Old 11-09-2017, 06:00 PM
 
Location: New York NY
4,139 posts, read 5,957,750 times
Reputation: 8691
OP

Several years ago one of my young relatives looking at colleges visited both Hillsdale and Wheaton (among others) and I remember him summing up the difference between the schools like this: He found the atmosphere at Hillsdale politically conservative but socially moderate, while Wheaton was socially conservative but politically moderate.

He ended up going to Wheaton because it was relatively closer to a big city (Chicago) than Hillsdale was to anything, because he is a serious Christian, and because he felt the academics at Wheaton were a little stronger and the school was better known nationally. Now how that would play out as a music major I don't know, as that was of no interest to him. But I do agree with an earlier poster who said that a no audition policy does not bode well if he is considering music as a career. Musicians only improve IMO when they are playing with people better than they are.

And yes, the U-M campus is wildly diverse, politically, socially, religiously. The outside perception of it may be as some sort of bastion of the SJWs, but I think that's wrong. The place is big enough to comfortably encompass all sorts of kids. And it does. Although I have no direct 411 on the music scene there, I've heard by reputation that it is a strong department. I'd guess that because of that and because of the size of the school, spots in the marching bands, jazz orchestras, student symphonies, etc. would be competitive -- which the boy may or may not like. Yes, there will be more large classes at U-M, but the academic rep of the place is stellar, and recognized nationwide.

Either way, choose a place where he'll be happy, do well, and can afford. Good luck!
 
Old 11-10-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,737 posts, read 59,687,302 times
Reputation: 26895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post





What Major is your son considering? It sounds from your post as if the Music Program does not require auditions. I would not recommend any non-Audition school to anyone considering a Music degree. Auditions are emotionally shattering (oldest son received a Bachelor of Music Engineering from Univ of Miami and had auditions at Berklee and Indiana University in addition to Miami) but the absence of Auditions is likely an indication of a low quality program.
He is thinking a dual major Trumpet Performance and Computer Engineering. However sometimes he is not sure he wants to major in music at all. He dislikes being broke. He loves playing the trumpet. It may become a minor if a lucrative major proves to be too challenging to double major. One problem he has is high school has not been all that challenging for him (I think one or two AP classes were somewhat challenging to him, but he has never had a semester where he is just slammed), so he has no idea how much of a challenge he can handle. Would Michigan be overwhelming? Would other schools be dull? He just does not know.

I am not aware of any school asking him to "audtion" per se. He did send a video to some schools I think. All of the schools he has visited, he had a free lesson with the trumpet teacher, except one where they could not find the guy. He played with/for the teacher, but did not actually audition. So far, all of them have wanted him in their school, he is pretty good and I am told has remarkable tone (I am not completely clear on what that means, I think I understand, but I ma not a technical music person - I can play the radio). Some schools told him wh would need to audition separately for Marching band, but he hates marching, so he is not interested unless they are going to offer him a huge scholarship to march.

Some of the schools already know him because he has played with summer programs and played with the jazz band of a local university in a dual enrollment class, so he has encountered quite a few of the university trumpet profs already.

Some of the schools have very strong music programs (U-M, Western MI, MSU) Hillsdale obviously does not, since he would be their top trumpet player as a freshman. On the other hand he really liked the teacher and they have some amazing jazz musicians visit the campus every year. Some schools do not have that great of a music school overall, but they have one professor in a specific instrument who is amazing. Not sure whether that is the case here.

He does not want to pursue professional performance because the nomadic lifestyle does not appeal to him and he has been told repeatedly that paying with an orchestra for a career becomes stifling and mechanical after a few years. However he would like to do something in music. He just does not know what. He may go to law school and/or business school and become an agent or some sort of music business professional.


I am a firm believer that getting your butt kicked in an super tough school and being miserable for four years so you can go work in a super demanding job that leaves you no life and miserable but pays extremely well - is a terrible life choice. Thus, someplace like Hillsdale that might be more pleasant and a better learning experience and still not limit him overly much has some appeal.

I went to Michigan (for law school) as did my wife undergrad, we loved it, but many of the students and professors tend to have a smug we are better attitude and the competition drives many students to pursue academics over all else in life. You can avoid it, but is it better to simply go someplace where the students and profs have a better attitude?

I think it is really boiling down to a contest between U-M and Hillsdale for him. He still needs to visit Western and possibly Albion, but they are not high on his list of options right now. He has not gotten his acceptance letter from U-M yet, but his grades and test scores are very good, so it would be a surprise if he did not get accepted there. (His sister and brother were both accepted with lower qualifications). U-M is clearly the most prestigious school in the state/region, but he is not fond of the campus or the attitude.

thanks for the input those of you who provided some. I will discuss this with him.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,737 posts, read 59,687,302 times
Reputation: 26895
This thread drift is amusing - from a third party perspective, maybe not to the participants. It is a good point that many very conservative to extreme right persons attended very liberal oriented schools.

Anne Coulter went to University of Michgian Law school (she was in my class). The school was liberal extremist to the extreme, but she still come out with a somewhat conservative viewpoint.

But yes, we have seen some of the attacks on conservatives from professors. One daughter was regularly called out by a professor to give the "Christian perspective" on what they were discussing. The professor would then lead the class in attacking and trying to prove her perspective is wrong (but she defended her positions well and the professor often conceded a point or at least said she had supported her position well and still gave her an A, she ahd that professor for several classes.). Funny thing is she is pretty liberal in most areas of social/political thought, she is a women's and minority rights activist, really big on sensitivity - just conservative on the issues of sex, marriage and abortion - so she gets ripped on a lot by her liberal extremist friends as being a prude, alt-right etc. In college circles you are either extreme liberal or you are alt right. Even extreme liberals who are deemed not liberal enough are deemed alt-right. It really comes down to "You agree with me 100% on every issue, or you are a Nazi." It is funny. They will grow out of it.

There is no question University of Michigan is heavily liberal extremist form the administrators, to the professors and most of the students. However that is not a reason to not go there is you are a moderate (which my son is). Likewise, a conservative viewpoint at Hillsdale is not a reason to not go there if it is not as extreme as made out to be by liberal extremists.

I am still hoping someone will pop up who actually attended Hillsdale. I have heard people who went there say it is not far right, but just moderate - not liberal extremist as so many colleges are and therefore it is branded far right. However that is only a few people, so I would like to find more. I have head many liberal people say it is a nazi school (which instantly kills their credibility), but none of them went there and they may just be repeating someone's catchy dogma. Trying to find some actually informed information.


there was a common saying when I was in college "If you are not a liberal democrat when you are young (or in college), you have no heart. If you are not a conservative republican when you are older you have no (investments, money, brain, common sense) It varied.

I fit that mold, I was a liberal idealist in college, worked for the ACLU MPIRG, democratic campaigns. Over time I realized the ideals while nice sounding were impractical and most of the politicians purporting to promote such ideal were just trying to obtain power and money for themselves and really only promoted the ideals as a means to an end (and usually ended up doing more harm than good). over time my viewpoint swung way right and eventually back to the middle. I think that is vary typical. At least for my generation.

I do not think colleges have gotten significantly more liberal than they were in the 1980s. I do not think that is even possible. There really is not much further they could go.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 12-08-2017 at 09:32 AM.. Reason: removed previously deleted comment
 
Old 11-10-2017, 09:59 AM
 
5,092 posts, read 4,367,890 times
Reputation: 4337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
He is thinking a dual major Trumpet Performance and Computer Engineering. However sometimes he is not sure he wants to major in music at all. He dislikes being broke. He loves playing the trumpet. It may become a minor if a lucrative major proves to be too challenging to double major. One problem he has is high school has not been all that challenging for him (I think one or two AP classes were somewhat challenging to him, but he has never had a semester where he is just slammed), so he has no idea how much of a challenge he can handle. Would Michigan be overwhelming? Would other schools be dull? He just does not know.
Wait...Computer Engineering? If he's really interested in that, then IMO he shouldn't go to Hillsdale.

From my understanding, Hillsdale College produces people who go onto careers in business, government, and economics. Your son going to Hillsdale for Computer Engineering when his other alternative is the University of Michigan would be akin to him going to Hillsdale College for Pre-Med when his other alternative is U of M.

Michigan is one of the top ten universities in the nation for Computer Engineering/Computer Science. In fact, if he's truly serious about computer engineering, he'd be better off going to either Western Michigan or Michigan State than a small liberal arts school like Hillsdale or Albion.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,214,167 times
Reputation: 2340
Quote:
Originally Posted by VendorDude View Post
If this is the sort of logic taught at Hillsdale, it's no wonder they have a shady reputation.
You haven't provided any evidence that Hillsdale has a 'shady reputation' with employers, med schools, law schools, etc. You appear to think something is shady if it doesn't validate your views.

If you are saying there are no scientists that disagree with the theories of global warming and evolution, you are not well informed.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,214,167 times
Reputation: 2340
Some interesting facts that I saw on Wikipedia about Hillsdale:

'Black students were admitted immediately after the college's 1844 founding,[7] and the college became the second school in the nation to grant four-year liberal arts degrees to women.'

'Hillsdale's early anti-slavery reputation and pivotal role in founding the Republican Party led to the invitation of several notable speakers on the campus, including Frederick Douglass (who visited the school on two separate occasions) and Edward Everett, the orator preceding Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg'

Here is Hillsdale's core required classes and I don't see any Bible based courses on it. https://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/...ral-arts-core/

The only religion related one is this: The Western Theological Tradition. I'm pretty sure there are similar courses to that at large state universities and other liberal arts colleges.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-10-2017 at 11:03 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top