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By that you mean that you can't answer why HPV has been added in RI when the issue has absolutely nothing to do with safety at school which is the reason you claim we need mandates. It's only a matter of time before HPV will be added in CA with no way to opt out.
You have been told why RI decided to include the HPV vaccine. Here it is again:
"But Tricia Washburn, chief of the office of immunization for the Rhode Island Department of Health, said the vaccine has been thoroughly studied by the Centers for Disease Control, which monitors adverse outcomes, and no safety concerns were found.
'The bottom line is that HPV is the most sexually transmitted disease in the U.S.' she said. 'We are interested in protecting the public health. We feel it shouldn't be treated any differently than any of the other vaccines recommended by the CDC.' The Department of Health decided to make the vaccine mandatory, unlike most states, she said, because Rhode Island incorporates all CDC-recommended vaccines into the state's school immunization regulations."
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Originally Posted by PoppySead
Nobody can come up with scientific evidence linking vaccines to injury or death. That is the problem. Mandating something that's impossible to find cause until hundreds of people are already injured from it over a long term is ridiculous.
That is false. If "Nobody can come up with scientific evidence linking vaccines to injury or death" the vaccine injury compensation program would not be paying any claims.
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Yes, we take our chances with a lot of things, like slipping in the bathroom but grow up, these are mandates. We are essentially facing sanctions by our own government like we do to foreign countries that don't follow the rules. Making life harder for those who won't follow the CDC is ludicrous.
As far as children with special needs goes, the threat of mandating Ritilan was to keep the children in the classroom safe from the child with ADHD. You obviously have no understanding of how parents with special needs children are treated, nor their children. For years they have struggled with coercion from educational staff to medicate in FEAR of harm to others. You have no background to understand what you are talking about. I have children, I've vaccinated and I have a child with special needs.
Perhaps if you have a child whose behavior is a threat to others you should consider at least trying medication. Head over to the education forum here. There are teachers posting about being hurt by special needs children.
The slippery slope argument fails, though. What you fear has not happened in Mississippi and West Virginia.
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Let me educate you: VAERS is the only real way to tell if anyone falls victim to injury of dies from a vaccine. Only after numerous accounts will they start to see a pattern and determine injury. Then will they remove it. After the fact of injury and death. How can you know what vaccines or new additives to vaccines will cause injury or death when they don't?
That is also false. Ongoing studies that have nothing to do with VAERS monitor for adverse effects of vaccines continuously after they are released. Such studies are done world wide.
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What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the fact that 1/2 who agree with this mandate have no children at all in school, and want to demand parents are sanctioned for not vaccinating on a schedule or skipping a vaccine they are concerned would cause harm regardless of the injury or death those children could face how ever rare or slight it is. Living with a life long vaccine injury isn't any different than living with a life long injury from a disease. It's still a hurt child, and a parent still feels the same about it.
There are thousands more children who would be injured by vaccine preventable diseases than by vaccines.
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Shouldn't parents have a choice if their kids will be the CDC's guinea pigs to test vaccine safety or not?
Intussusception is a serious disorder in which part of the intestine slides into an adjacent part of the intestine.
Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) is a disorder in which the body's immune system attacks part of the peripheral nervous system.
To discover this many people had to suffer it first. Sanctioning your own people is gross. IMO. You can argue my opinion all you want, but it won't change the fact that I feel this way. Regardless of your opinion which is all that is.
You do not have to vaccinate if you do not want to. Problem solved.
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Originally Posted by katjonjj
You are wrong as I pointed out in my post. I attended Bastyr University (the school used in those stats) for my bachelors and met many ND students. One student I met was actually doing a dual degree. He attended both Bastyr and UW. I thought he was insane but well... he seemed fine other than the bags under his eyes. However, I was on the ND track and KNOW what it entails but I was also considering the MD track at UW and KNOW what that entails.
I chose the ND track because of the focus on body wellness through nutrition rather than the focus on symptoms and drugs. The core classes are the same! NDs learn pharma for reference, MDs learn pharma extensively for use. NDs learn nutrition extensively for use, MDs learn nutrition for reference. These little details are what sets the two apart.
The links you provided are as biased as they come! Do you think massage therapy is "quackery?"
My links are biased? The information I presented was given by chiropractors themselves!
Ah, Bastyr! That explains the ... deficits ... in your understanding of science in general and infectious diseases and vaccines in particular.
"But Tricia Washburn, chief of the office of immunization for the Rhode Island Department of Health, said the vaccine has been thoroughly studied by the Centers for Disease Control, which monitors adverse outcomes, and no safety concerns were found.
'The bottom line is that HPV is the most sexually transmitted disease in the U.S.' she said. 'We are interested in protecting the public health. We feel it shouldn't be treated any differently than any of the other vaccines recommended by the CDC.' The Department of Health decided to make the vaccine mandatory, unlike most states, she said, because Rhode Island incorporates all CDC-recommended vaccines into the state's school immunization regulations."
You seem to be a minority in your view that the HPV vaccine should be a school mandate. Others (yourself included) have argued that we need vaccines for school children because they share so much time together in school and that we need to protect those who cannot be vaccinated or for who the vaccine does not work. The argument falls flat on it's face when you argue that HPV should also be included. You have told me why you agree with it but the reason does not line up with the arguments on why we need school. Also, my post was directed at tlvancouver who uses that argument as the reason for mandates. I know where you stand. Unless you speak for tlvacnuver, why not let her respond?
Yes, the fact that these mandates will open to the door for the government to be able to over ride people's decisions to make medical choices for themselves and their families is concerning.
You mean like the decision to make a Jehovah's Witness let his child have a blood transfusion because the child would die without it?
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Originally Posted by Jo48
Measles rates WERE going down before that vaccine. Why? Natural Immunity. When the majority of the population has already had measles and is immune for LIFE, it needs new hosts not immune. Birthrates go down so fewer and fewer new hosts.
Can you explain why there are "fewer and fewer new hosts" when the world population now is over 7 billion? Sorry, our birthrate is going down. For the rest of the world, it's going up and up. That means there are thousands and thousands of new hosts born every day.
And let's talk about those measles. Even if - IF - they were going down before the vaccination was introduced, they didn't just start to go down afterwards. The number of people who contracted measles dropped like a rock and the number of measles cases flatlined. And isn't it interesting that while we had virtually NO cases of measles in the US in the year 2000, we now are on track to having over 400 cases this year alone, while at the same time, vaccination rates are dropping. How do you explain that one? Coincidence? Hardly.
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It works exactly the same your so called vaccinated Herd Immunity. There are approximately 76 million UNVACCINATED people around you with natural immunity to measles who cannot get it again or give it to YOU. Do you trust that???????
No, because I have better sense than to believe that. For the babillionth time, people only have natural immunity to measles when they get measles, and getting measles is one hell of a risk to take when there is a vaccine that will keep them from getting sick from measles in the first place.
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You people refuse to acknowledge that. There are many young parents who do. They would prefer their children catch these "deadly" childhood diseases and get life immunity than risk a chemical vaccination. Not just measles but now "deadly" chicken pox as well. The VAST majority survived these horrible diseases with no complications whatsoever.
Young parents today then are total idiots. Nothing like playing dice with your kid's life. I really wonder what happens when their children end up going blind, or have scars from chicken pox, or die from pneumonia after having measles. There are articles about parents who were anti-vaccination and changed their minds when their children ended up in a hospital from a common childhood disease that has a vaccine they didn't want to give their kids.
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Better get rid of cars if you are so afraid of death and dying. Far more people die in car crashes then do, or ever did, from getting measles, etc.
Seriously? You think the number of children who died from measles in the past was less than 40,000 people a year? Boy, do you need a wake up call!
"Measles, a viral respiratory infection, killed over 500,000 children in 2003, more than any other vaccine-preventable disease. The measles death toll in Africa is so high – every minute one child dies – that many mothers don't give children real names until they have survived the disease."
"Pertussis – also known as whooping cough – kills about 300,000 children a year, while a third respiratory infection, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) pneumonia kills about 500,000."
Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2013, there were 145,700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year."
You seem to be a minority in your view that the HPV vaccine should be a school mandate. Others (yourself included) have argued that we need vaccines for school children because they share so much time together in school and that we need to protect those who cannot be vaccinated or for who the vaccine does not work. The argument falls flat on it's face when you argue that HPV should also be included. You have told me why you agree with it but the reason does not line up with the arguments on why we need school. Also, my post was directed at tlvancouver who uses that argument as the reason for mandates. I know where you stand. Unless you speak for tlvacnuver, why not let her respond?
I think the parents who think their kids won't get HPV is about the same as the number of parents in denial about their kids having sex. I think it would be a wonderful thing to make every schoolchild receive the HPV vaccine. I asked about it myself but alas, I'm too old.
All I know is, if I were a parent and my daughter was dying from cervical cancer, I wouldn't want to have to face her and answer her question about WHY, when the vaccine was available, didn't I give it to her.
You know, I have no doubt if there was a vaccine for cancer, there would be people claiming that if we were just exposed to cancer, we'd get natural immunity and it would be better to take the chance of getting cancer than it would be to get the vaccine.
Seeing as how some cancers are caused by viruses, I also don't doubt that day is closer than ever.
I think the parents who think their kids won't get HPV is about the same as the number of parents in denial about their kids having sex. I think it would be a wonderful thing to make every schoolchild receive the HPV vaccine. I asked about it myself but alas, I'm too old.
All I know is, if I were a parent and my daughter was dying from cervical cancer, I wouldn't want to have to face her and answer her question about WHY, when the vaccine was available, didn't I give it to her.
You know, I have no doubt if there was a vaccine for cancer, there would be people claiming that if we were just exposed to cancer, we'd get natural immunity and it would be better to take the chance of getting cancer than it would be to get the vaccine.
Seeing as how some cancers are caused by viruses, I also don't doubt that day is closer than ever.
HPV is common, cervical cancer is not. It's fine for you to choose this vaccine for your children but to make it a mandate is overkill. I guess you're a fan of living in a nanny state and allowing government to have excessive control over people's everyday decisions in the name of public health?
HPV is common, cervical cancer is not. It's fine for you to choose this vaccine for your children but to make it a mandate is overkill. I guess you're a fan of living in a nanny state and allowing government to have excessive control over people's everyday decisions in the name of public health?
"Current data indicate that HPV infection is potentially associated with 90%-93% of anal cancers, 12%-63% of oropharyngeal cancers, 36%-40% of penile cancers, 40%-64% of vaginal cancers, and 40%-51% of vulvar cancers."
"The high proportion of cervical and noncervical cancers caused by HPV types 16 and 18, that is, 70%-76% for cervical cancers and 63%-95% for noncervical cancers, underscores the potential for prevention of a majority of cervical as well as noncervical HPV-related cancers through prophylactic HPV vaccination."
"It is now well established that HPV-induced oropharyngeal cancers and those caused by other factors (such as smoking and alcohol abuse—a combination of heavy smoking and drinking leads to an almost 50-fold increased risk of oral and pharyngeal cancer3) are two separate entities, with distinct aetiologies, clinical characteristics, prognoses and a different epidemiology and molecular basis."
"Now, researchers say HPV-16 is the leading HPV type liked to penile cancer; HPV-18 is the second most common type, according to a report in the Journal of Clinical Pathology. Two cancers of the penis (basaloid and warty squamous cell carcinomas) were most often associated with the two high-risk HPV types.
No, there is currently no approved test for HPV in men."
Just keep your head in the sand and pretend that the only thing to be concerned about from an HPV infection is cervical cancer. I would be very interested in knowing how you will have your daughter screen potential partners for HPV - before she has her first kiss.
The risk of contracting cervical cancer is low with routine pap smears. The risk of contracting any type of cancer from HPV is low. Other risk factors are involved. HIV infection for one. Smoking; Why are cigarettes still on the market considering their documented role in cancer of all types? Circumcision plays a role. Are you wishing to mandate that all baby boys get circumcised whether their parents agree or not? I certainly would hope not. Alcohol plays a role. Are you planning to deny adults their wine and cocktails that many hold so dear? What about the sun? Ban sunbathing? This is the door you are opening when you decide that you want to live in a nanny state and mandate instead of allow people real choice when it comes to healthcare decisions. Keep pretending that the risk is so great with HPV that we need to vaccinate all teenagers for this via mandates aka force and not allow real choice in the matter. I find your line of thinking to be extremely dangerous and damaging to society as a whole.
The risk of contracting cervical cancer is low with routine pap smears. The risk of contracting any type of cancer from HPV is low. Other risk factors are involved. HIV infection for one. Smoking; Why are cigarettes still on the market considering their documented role in cancer of all types? Circumcision plays a role. Are you wishing to mandate that all baby boys get circumcised whether their parents agree or not? I certainly would hope not. Alcohol plays a role. Are you planning to deny adults their wine and cocktails that many hold so dear? What about the sun? Ban sunbathing? This is the door you are opening when you decide that you want to live in a nanny state and mandate instead of allow people real choice when it comes to healthcare decisions. Keep pretending that the risk is so great with HPV that we need to vaccinate all teenagers for this via mandates aka force and not allow real choice in the matter. I find your line of thinking to be extremely dangerous and damaging to society as a whole.
Pap smears diagnose cervical cancer and pre-cancerous conditions. They don't do anything to prevent anal cancer or penile cancer
The risk of contracting cervical cancer may be comparatively low. So is the risk of being in a car accident. Do you think we should repeal the laws requiring people to have car insurance because the risk of a car accident is slight during any given year? Every state in this country imposes a requirement that operators of cars have car insurance to protect innocent third parties they may be involved in an accident with. Its not merely low risk of contracting disease that must be factored into a risk benefit calculation. The other aspect of such a calculation is the severity of harm if the disease result. Cervical cancer, alone, kills 4,000 people a year.
I am glad you took the time to look up information from the American Cancer Society on these forms of cancer. I do wonder though how well you read your own literature. HPV is listed as the first and most important risk factor in contracting anal cancer and penile cancer. If you had cited a link to cervical cancer, you would find its listed as the greatest risk factor there as well.
FTR, the American Cancer Society endorses the Gardasil vaccination for girls in young age groups.
Pap smears diagnose cervical cancer and pre-cancerous conditions. They don't do anything to prevent anal cancer or penile cancer.
Both of which are very rare. Just so you know, you can get the equivalent of a pap for your anus. http://www.cancer.org/cancer/analcan...ncer-detection Especially important for those who are on the receiving end of anal sex.
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Penile cancer is rare in North America and Europe. It occurs in less than 1 man in 100,000 and accounts for less than 1% of cancers in men in the United States.
The risk of contracting cervical cancer may be comparatively low. So is the risk of being in a car accident. Do you think we should repeal the laws requiring people to have car insurance because the risk of a car accident is slight during any given year? Every state in this country imposes a requirement that operators of cars have car insurance to protect innocent third parties they may be involved in an accident with. Its not merely low risk of contracting disease that must be factored into a risk benefit calculation. The other aspect of such a calculation is the severity of harm if the disease result. Cervical cancer, alone, kills 4,000 people a year.
Your analogy doesn't measure up. Insurance does not prevent people from being hurt, killed or injured in car accidents. It's all about finances which are not relevant to vaccines when discussing mandates for HPV, and shouldn't be used as a justification for mandates for vaccines for any illness. No one is mandating that people stop driving. People are mandating that teens get their HPV vaccine.
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Originally Posted by markg91359
I am glad you took the time to look up information from the American Cancer Society on these forms of cancer. I do wonder though how well you read your own literature. HPV is listed as the first and most important risk factor in contracting anal cancer and penile cancer. If you had cited a link to cervical cancer, you would find its listed as the greatest risk factor there as well.
I knew that some people would nit pick and take the info out of context rather then reading the entire piece like I did. The fact of the matter is that anal and penile cancers are very rare and things like having HIV, smoking, anal sex, etc. increase that risk greatly. The threat of HPV does not warrant mandates.
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Originally Posted by markg91359
FTR, the American Cancer Society endorses the Gardasil vaccination for girls in young age groups.
Of course they do. Endorsing, recommending and educating are fine because they all involve choice. Mandates are not fine. There is no reason to mandate the HPV vaccine. Did you notice that they only recommend the vaccine for girls? Why not boys? Men are the only ones at risk for penile cancer and their risk for getting Anal cancer is nearly as high as it is for women. Why only for girls?
I get that you like the HPV vaccine and that you were happy to give it to your children but what justification do you have for mandating the vaccine for all as a requirement for school entry for all children?
Last edited by MissTerri; 08-08-2015 at 12:02 PM..
So MissTerri, you dismiss the risk of penile cancer (1 in a hundred thousand) as "very rare" even though it is 10 times higher than the risk of a severe adverse reaction to childhood vaccines that prevent more than 14 deadly and debilitating diseases (not even including hpv).
You do understand that 1 in a hundred thousand getting CANCER is a higher risk than 1 in a million having a reaction to medicine that SAVES thousands of lives.
Mind boggling really.
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