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Old Yesterday, 09:46 PM
 
Location: West coast
243 posts, read 88,324 times
Reputation: 373

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This boat only carried a small amount of oxygen.
The small amount was used for medical emergency safety.
The boat does offer nitrox but doesn’t blend O2 from a bank system.
It uses a membrane system that filters out nitrogen out of the atsmophere (sp?) by doing this you can easily get nitrox 32 (32% oxygen) which is not no where near the oxidizer that 100%.
The batteries I earlier mentioned might be the ones they used for scooters or fancy underwater lighting systems, kinda like the ones that are prone to exploding.
One cheap eBay or Craig’s list one is what I’m thinking.
The only gasoline was a small amount for the inflatable tender.
They actually use the tender to store gasoline at night while it is tied off.
There is also propane used for the outside bbq.
That’s about all I know.
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Old Yesterday, 09:49 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 321,079 times
Reputation: 3214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
There does appear to be an interesting and important issue here.

Should there be an escape hatch to the open sea from any berthing area?

It appears clear that there were two escape routes from the berthing area. Both however lead to the salon which apparently included the galley. And once the galley was caught on fire the entire salon soon followed.

So should there have been an emergency exit to the sea or at least clear of the boat?

None of these people would have been in trouble for being in the ocean 20 yards off shore. In fact if there were a person or two in trouble there were likely a half dozen folks who could tow two or three people in.

So maybe the problem is what is required...not what happened.
I'm not sure how you jumped from my post about sympathy for the victims, rescuers, and families to a safety analysis and dismissal of empathy for these people, as they're two completely different subjects, but okay...

Any any rate, the lack of sufficient escape hatches has, yes, been part of the discussion here as well as in the news stories and the comments to same. However, without knowledge of how quickly the thing went up, we really don't know to what extent it would have helped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
75 feet is the size of a medium size yacht, which would have a maximum capacity of about 25 people. Though most would carry less people then that. 39 people in a 75 foot boat is crazy.
This boat was apparently able to fit 46 people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
It reminds me of when the Italian Coast Guard ordered Captain Francesco Schettino to get back on his ship. At least these guys didn't refuse. I hope every one of these crew members is charged with manslaughter.
We have no idea what the conditions were, both in the crisis and under which they left.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
Why? How would an accidental fire be their fault?

And the locked doors don't make sense. You can latch a door but they don't generally have locks.
They were not locked; it seems there was simply misunderstanding initially between the CG radio operator and the crew.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MechAndy View Post
Why did the night watch person not have time to shout fire fire fire?
Did anyone say they did not? If the issue is that people were not able to get out, knowing there was a fire wasn't going to help them if it was already too late.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
14,899 posts, read 9,938,204 times
Reputation: 12548
I knew going down with your ship was the stuff of the movies.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Troy, NY
1,203 posts, read 178,178 times
Reputation: 674
It's sad, but the passengers were probably already died in the sleep from carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide poisoning.
Better than burning alive.

The dive boat bunk room looks very tight. It small and long enough to funnel the fire & smoke.
Depending on which way the fire started, they never had a chance.

The fire can spread fast and furious.

Dorm room fire demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJYC6SOgUig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUh4rCjuYDA

Backdraft Demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdEI7g2i1ZU


Hopefully the USCG can determine the cause, so it can be prevented again.
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Old Yesterday, 11:13 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,721 posts, read 3,235,463 times
Reputation: 26208
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechAndy View Post
I am a CA diver.
I’m afraid to hear the victim list.
I’ve been on this boat and her sister ship the Vision at least 8 or so times.
I never liked the tight sleeping quarters.
Other than that this is or was a top notch outfit.
How did this happen?
My guess it was batteries but I don’t know.
Why did the night watch person not have time to shout fire fire fire?
Normally I would easily say he or she might be asleep, but I’ve spent over 30 nights on the Conception and the Vision and I always get up at night, never once did I see the watch person sleeping or act like they just woke up.
Top notch outfit.
Very sad day.
Andy.
THANK YOU for contributing rational information. Whether the bigger and more verbose ignoramuses here pay attention or not, you have provided first hand knowledge about the boat's setup and operation. I've spent many days at sea on "working" (and I don't mean little private fishing boats, I mean 30 to 60 ft chartered research, oceanographic, or administrative support type vessels which would have housed multiple people for multiple days).

The reality is, below deck bunk space on all but behemoth cruise ships or uber-luxurious yachts is cramped. So is egress. They are built for seaworthiness, not comfort. Vessel fires are fast and deadly. They carry a lot of fuel, even if it is diesel and there are a lot of flammable structural materials packed into a small space so smoke and fumes could have overcome the passengers quite quickly.

While anchored at night they were probably running equipment (anchor lights, radio, pumps, navigation electronics, etc.) off the battery bank, not the engines. I don't dive but have friends in southern CA who do. When I heard about this I emailed one to ask what they'd heard around the community. From what friends said, the company has a fine reputation. They don't get that with mere lip service, and the USCG does not skimp on safety inspections.

Last edited by Parnassia; Yesterday at 11:38 PM..
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Old Today, 05:50 AM
 
5,033 posts, read 2,259,318 times
Reputation: 7233
It appears that everything about this boat and crew was 'normal'. That is, current safety standards were adhered to.


This does not preclude the possibility of human error. I do not know what was routine on this vessel. Was a cook preparing or beginning to prepare breakfast for about 40 people? Did this result in some kind of grease fire? Did it start with a faulty lithium battery that was totally unforeseen? How did the fire start is a big question.



Some comments indicate that safety briefings to passengers were normally done but may have been minimal and incomplete. For instance, some avowed previous customers stated they were not aware of the escape hatch or never saw it even after spending a night on the boat.
Crew would could potentially include a captain, engineer, dive master or two, deck hand and a steward/cook that shared responsibilities.


Its obvious passengers were packed into a small space with limited entrance and egress. This is as much about boat design as anything. There are many issues and things to consider here. They type of boat was a dive boat designed for about 40 passengers. The mechanics for that alone takes up a lot of space. There were probably 100 or more tanks of air with compressors and associated equipment for refilling them. Then there are wet suits, flippers, masks, bouncy compensators and more for every diver. There has to be space to "suit up" and sit/wait for water entry and recovery.


Boat hulls are generally continuous and seamless as much as possible. The ocean is harsh. Every possible thru hull fitting is necessary and usually has some kind of valve to close it off if need be to keep water out. Adding some kind of escape hatch door other than on the deck or well above the water line is the only way to maintain hull integrity. Fuel is expensive, maintenance of any kind of boat is expensive and on going. Keeping anything outside in salt water is about as harsh as it gets. All this equipment and mechanical stuff requires constant attention. Just the cost of docking a boat, regardless of its condition, cost. Its is an expensive operation. Not to mention this is southern California where the price of anything is high. I only mention some of this for the benefit of some that think they go into a dive charter business and make millions overnight.


Enclosed engine compartments on any boat have to be ventilated and most have some kind of automatic fire extinguisher. The same can not be said for galleys and sleeping compartments.


These kind of issues are generally mandated by law and design/construction methods. These are the kind of things I expect will change in the future.

Last edited by ditchoc; Today at 07:17 AM..
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Old Today, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
1,327 posts, read 595,954 times
Reputation: 2101
I’m waiting for charges for some or all of the crew and possibly the owner. Six out of seven managed to dive overboard while everyone else was trapped below deck. There’s got to be some sort of negligence.
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Old Today, 06:55 AM
KCZ
 
1,771 posts, read 1,023,535 times
Reputation: 4904
If a fast-moving fire obstructed escape from below deck, it quite possibly obstructed entry from above deck by crew without fireproof suits and respirators. Regardless of the eventual findings by Coast Guard and FBI investigators, I'm sure multiple lawsuits will be filed.
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Old Today, 07:15 AM
 
Location: So Ca
16,073 posts, read 15,284,461 times
Reputation: 14004
Update at 5 a.m. PST

Escape routes blocked by fire doomed passengers of the Conception. Do they point to larger danger?
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-of-conception
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Old Today, 08:00 AM
 
5,033 posts, read 2,259,318 times
Reputation: 7233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccernerd View Post
I’m waiting for charges for some or all of the crew and possibly the owner. Six out of seven managed to dive overboard while everyone else was trapped below deck. There’s got to be some sort of negligence.

Think about putting yourself in this scenario. There is a room full of people with one way out. The only way out is through another room engulfed in flames, a conflagration. You are on the other side side of the burning room on a deck surrounded by ocean. Your choices are run into the fire to try and get to the trapped people, in which case you will surely burn up or jump into the ocean.


So far there is no indication of negligence. That does not mean it does not exist. Did a crew member do something negligent or even intentional that started the fire? I guess anything is possible. There were survivors and their full story has not come out yet. I would think they have at least some idea how the fire started. Was it truly an accident, a negligent act, an equipment malfunction? After a couple of days, no mention has been made public about how the fire started. That may be construed as suspicions by its self. As far as anything being possible, maybe the survivors can not be sure how it started. As in most other major catastrophes, investigators will come to some conclusions but it may be weeks or months before the public knows. In this case, much of the vessel was burned up and sank in 60 foot of water. Determining the cause may not be so easy.
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