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Old 01-24-2018, 05:04 PM
 
11,574 posts, read 5,552,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quique07 View Post
You know guys, as much as what you guys say is lawfully correct, and if we go by the law the DACA should be deported. The reality here is that immigration is similar to when engineering plans are design and what you think on plan works it ends up not working out in the field.

Yes, there is already a process to come here legally, yes there is the visa lottery, the problem is that our system is archaic.

The wait time to come to this country legally is not realistic. People are being told to wait 20+ years before they can come to the states.... 20 years is a lifetime. This is probably why so many people choose to come here illegally.

I know some of you might argue that, the wait time is not our problem, and that those who really want to come will wait, and that is true. But then, where is the humanitarian side to this country in wanting to help people strive for a better life?
In the past this country has been characterized by how much it gives to the rest of the world and how Americans have always help other people.

Is true, we don't owe the Dreamers anything. But as Americans, I do think we have a higher responsibility than any other nationality in the world, in trying to help others, simply because we are fortunate to be living in the best country in the world.
There are literally billions of people in the world who would love to "strive for a better life". The first world simply can not take in all of them.

Yes, Americans have always helped people. However, our natural resources are NOT unlimited. We, as a nation, have no obligation to continue to take in people from the second or third world.

These days, we can't properly take care of our homegrown poor people, let alone those poor who want to come here.

We have no obligations to the DACAs. Period.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:11 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 951,273 times
Reputation: 2129
We conservatives have to start framing things in terms that liberals can understand. With regards to the issue of DACA, we should be asking:

Why do the Democrats hate the DACA recipients so much?! Obviously, if they loved them, they would agree to common sense immigration reform and border security. With regards to the wall, if they are so sure it won't work, then why not let Trump build it and prove him wrong, then use it against him later?!
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,133,351 times
Reputation: 18146
Quote:
Originally Posted by quique07 View Post
You know guys, as much as what you guys say is lawfully correct, and if we go by the law the DACA should be deported. The reality here is that immigration is similar to when engineering plans are design and what you think on plan works it ends up not working out in the field.

Yes, there is already a process to come here legally, yes there is the visa lottery, the problem is that our system is archaic.

The wait time to come to this country legally is not realistic. People are being told to wait 20+ years before they can come to the states.... 20 years is a lifetime. This is probably why so many people choose to come here illegally.

I know some of you might argue that, the wait time is not our problem, and that those who really want to come will wait, and that is true. But then, where is the humanitarian side to this country in wanting to help people strive for a better life?
In the past this country has been characterized by how much it gives to the rest of the world and how Americans have always help other people.

Is true, we don't owe the Dreamers anything. But as Americans, I do think we have a higher responsibility than any other nationality in the world, in trying to help others, simply because we are fortunate to be living in the best country in the world.
Any idea what the wait time is for public housing that is filled with illegal aliens riding the coat tails of their anchor babies? Any idea what the waiting time is for day/residential services for people with developmental disabilities? (Several states in excess of 10 years.) And, in most states, mental health services are almost non-existent. How many homeless in America, more than 500,000 people. Why? Funding. Illegal aliens cost the US taxpayers $117 billion a year and the figure continues to grow.

Shutdown ALL incoming immigrants and bus out the illegal aliens until which point we have an excess, which is no citizen or legal immigrant homeless, the needs of our developmentally disabled, physically disabled, elderly and mentally ill are meant, our infrastructure is brought up to date.

We already send money to all the countries where these illegal aliens come from, and Mexico gets $26 billion from their residents living in our country. I know Americans that have went to work in Mexico. I know people who go to Mexico for dental work, eyeglasses and medical prescriptions because they are a fraction of what they cost in our country basically because we subsidize the companies with high prices here so they can give them to foreign countries for a lesser cost!

Before we shipped out our jobs, and became infested with refugees and illegal aliens, we had extra money, but not now.

As Americans, I feel it is important that we support the laws of our country. Surely we can see the mess created when the laws were not enforced. We must not reward the children of people who disrespected our laws as many parents waiting to come in legally have not had their children educated by our country, etc. and that is wrong. What about compassion for those that do it the right way?

If one watches the news stories, one will see that many of these illegal aliens, including DACA, really aren't fit or deserving of compassion.

Let's have compassion for the millions of US children whose parent(s) is in prison for non-violent crimes, open the doors so the families can be together. Imagine those children in foster care and/or poverty, not college education like many of the DACA....................

Send them home. I was just at Schumer's FB page, and the comments are not supporting his stance on illegal aliens. The Schumer Shutdown. He is still vowing to support illegal aliens over citizens, let's see where that "compassion" gets him!
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:13 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 951,273 times
Reputation: 2129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Any idea what the wait time is for public housing that is filled with illegal aliens riding the coat tails of their anchor babies? Any idea what the waiting time is for day/residential services for people with developmental disabilities? (Several states in excess of 10 years.) And, in most states, mental health services are almost non-existent. How many homeless in America, more than 500,000 people. Why? Funding. Illegal aliens cost the US taxpayers $117 billion a year and the figure continues to grow.

Shutdown ALL incoming immigrants and bus out the illegal aliens until which point we have an excess, which is no citizen or legal immigrant homeless, the needs of our developmentally disabled, physically disabled, elderly and mentally ill are meant, our infrastructure is brought up to date.

We already send money to all the countries where these illegal aliens come from, and Mexico gets $26 billion from their residents living in our country. I know Americans that have went to work in Mexico. I know people who go to Mexico for dental work, eyeglasses and medical prescriptions because they are a fraction of what they cost in our country basically because we subsidize the companies with high prices here so they can give them to foreign countries for a lesser cost!

Before we shipped out our jobs, and became infested with refugees and illegal aliens, we had extra money, but not now.

As Americans, I feel it is important that we support the laws of our country. Surely we can see the mess created when the laws were not enforced. We must not reward the children of people who disrespected our laws as many parents waiting to come in legally have not had their children educated by our country, etc. and that is wrong. What about compassion for those that do it the right way?

If one watches the news stories, one will see that many of these illegal aliens, including DACA, really aren't fit or deserving of compassion.

Let's have compassion for the millions of US children whose parent(s) is in prison for non-violent crimes, open the doors so the families can be together. Imagine those children in foster care and/or poverty, not college education like many of the DACA....................

Send them home. I was just at Schumer's FB page, and the comments are not supporting his stance on illegal aliens. The Schumer Shutdown. He is still vowing to support illegal aliens over citizens, let's see where that "compassion" gets him!
It'll be interesting to watch what happens to opinion polls as they begin waving their Mexican flags and burning American flags, stopping traffic, etc, in the coming weeks.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,133,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
It'll be interesting to watch what happens to opinion polls as they begin waving their Mexican flags and burning American flags, stopping traffic, etc, in the coming weeks.
They have said that this shutdown and Schumer's insisting they be amnestied is hurting the DACA more than helping. So, Schumer is an idiot hurting DACA and hurting the chances of Dems in the mid-term, but I hope he keeps it up!
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:23 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 951,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
They have said that this shutdown and Schumer's insisting they be amnestied is hurting the DACA more than helping. So, Schumer is an idiot hurting DACA and hurting the chances of Dems in the mid-term, but I hope he keeps it up!
I personally had some sympathy for them and have up to this point supported legally continuing DACA in exchange for common sense border security, an end to chain migration, more resources for ICE to ramp up deportations and strict e-verify.

If we are able to get most of those things in return for giving them DACA, I'm still in favor of such a deal, but if the Dems fail to negotiate, I'm in favor of deporting them all.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,133,351 times
Reputation: 18146
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
I personally had some sympathy for them and have up to this point supported legally continuing DACA in exchange for common sense border security, an end to chain migration, more resources for ICE to ramp up deportations and strict e-verify.

If we are able to get most of those things in return for giving them DACA, I'm still in favor of such a deal, but if the Dems fail to negotiate, I'm in favor of deporting them all.
I do not see Schumer agreeing on that kind of trade though. Still DACA is a "foot in the door", so I support no deal. We just cannot reward the children of cheaters while the children of those immigrating per the laws are cheated out of the American dream as time passes when they wait. Life isn't fair.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:31 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 951,273 times
Reputation: 2129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I do not see Schumer agreeing on that kind of trade though. Still DACA is a "foot in the door", so I support no deal. We just cannot reward the children of cheaters while the children of those immigrating per the laws are cheated out of the American dream as time passes when they wait. Life isn't fair.
No, he and the Democrats will not support all of that, but the two fundamental pieces, border security and an end to chain migration are mandatory imo and I'd rather see no deal at all than give them DACA. I am willing to accept DACA and that alone, however as far as amnesty goes, without them being able to sponsor their families.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:15 PM
 
31,886 posts, read 14,678,159 times
Reputation: 8496
Quote:
Originally Posted by quique07 View Post
You know guys, as much as what you guys say is lawfully correct, and if we go by the law the DACA should be deported. The reality here is that immigration is similar to when engineering plans are design and what you think on plan works it ends up not working out in the field.

Yes, there is already a process to come here legally, yes there is the visa lottery, the problem is that our system is archaic.

The wait time to come to this country legally is not realistic. People are being told to wait 20+ years before they can come to the states.... 20 years is a lifetime. This is probably why so many people choose to come here illegally.

I know some of you might argue that, the wait time is not our problem, and that those who really want to come will wait, and that is true. But then, where is the humanitarian side to this country in wanting to help people strive for a better life?
In the past this country has been characterized by how much it gives to the rest of the world and how Americans have always help other people.

Is true, we don't owe the Dreamers anything. But as Americans, I do think we have a higher responsibility than any other nationality in the world, in trying to help others, simply because we are fortunate to be living in the best country in the world.

No one has a right to a better life by breaking laws and taking from others what doesn't belong to them. Just how humanitarian were illegal aliens to our own citizens while they took their jobs, stole their SS numbers, overcrowded our schools, jail, hospitals, roads and neighborhoods and that isn't counting the over $100 billion a year that they cost us. Based on the above, why should we feel humanitarian towards them?


We still give to the rest of the world generously and we allow in 1 million legal immigrants a year but we cannot be the flophouse and employment agency to the whole that wants to come here. We'd be killing the goose that laid the golden egg and it would be harmful to our own citizens.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:02 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,627 posts, read 31,265,068 times
Reputation: 26702
Quote:
Originally Posted by quique07 View Post
Yes, there is already a process to come here legally, yes there is the visa lottery, the problem is that our system is archaic.

The wait time to come to this country legally is not realistic. People are being told to wait 20+ years before they can come to the states.... 20 years is a lifetime. This is probably why so many people choose to come here illegally.
Gonna go ahead and stop you right there.


Some people are waiting 20+ years to come here legally. These are people who are by and large not immediate relatives of US citizens/GC holders and they almost always come from Mexico, China, India, or the Philippines. There is a reason for this....these people don't qualify in other categories and we have quotas for each category of family reunification except spouses & minor children of US citizens (no quotas). If we didn't have per-country caps, without increasing the # of visas granted in these arcane, low-priority family categories, they'd go almost exclusively to people from Mexico, China, India, and the Philippines. That's hardly fair. And why should we increase the # of visas granted? We don't need to. It's not like we need more people from Mexico, China, India, and the Philippines. We have tons of them already. If we didn't, their family members wouldn't be jamming the system with applications for green cards. That's why it takes so long if you're from one of those countries: SO MANY PEOPLE ARE IN LINE AHEAD OF YOU.


If you're a Mexican guy in your 50s and your brother got amnestied in 1986 and you applied for your green card in like...1992...then yeah, you're gonna wait a while. Guess what, though? Pretty much no other first world country would afford you the opportunity to immigrate there based on the fact that your brother lives there. We have an exceedingly generous chain immigration system that nearly no other country on Earth has. The fact that it even exists is staggering to many Europeans. Ditto with the diversity visa lottery.

If your average American...particularly those over 40...wanted to immigrate to Europe, to Canada, to Australia...it's unlikely they'd qualify. But...they're just trying to build a better life for themselves and their families! How would you feel about a white family of four...dad an unemployed factory worker, mom making peanuts cleaning houses, and 2 kids...planting themselves in Canada or Europe illegally, taking advantage of the free healthcare and subsidized childcare, working for cash under the table, and then fighting ferociously to be allowed to stay once their host nation's government begins deportation proceedings? Because that's the reality. You'd condemn them for freeloading and support Canada or whatever random European country they invaded for deporting them. How are they different from illegals here? (They're not.)

We don't owe anyone a lifestyle, we don't owe anyone a visa, and we need to reduce immigration...not increase it. We are not a "nation of immigrants" anymore. We do not need your huddled masses yearning to be free. Be free somewhere else. Make your own country free.
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