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Old 01-22-2007, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I'm not sure if this refers to me or not. I submit that I'm not as green as you seem to think. I have three sons still at home and I have spent most of my life in the workforce. I can't remember the last time I got to spend 50 bucks, let alone an entire paycheck, as I please. I haven't been dependent on my parents since I was seventeen years old.
I concede that I have never owned a business, although it is a goal of mine, but I have worked two jobs whilegoing back to school with two young children at home. I did this to give myself a competitive edge against every other worker, legal or otherwise. I am not content to look up at the world and complain that it hasn't given me enough opportunity. I chose to do something about it. And I don't ever use someone else, or some other group as a scapegoat.
Well we have owned our own business, 11 years as a home builder. And because we refused to hire illegals and do shoddy work we lost our business. We took less profit but big builders wanted faster and faster and cheaper. So subs hired illegals and cut corners. I went to college I have four kids, we pay all our bills,we work 12-14 hour days, but we manage, we are not rich, no one but the big boys we know are. All scraping by. But to have to pay for our own and the illegals, isnt right no matter how you spin it, it isnt a scapegoat it is a fact.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:15 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
market is determined by the corporations that run it.
You're thinking about one company, not a market. A single company can set thier own wages but they have to raise or lower them depending on what workers are willing to accept. They will pay you little unless you can show them that you are worth that extra income (additional skills, experience). If you work in an industry where somone is taking your job with no previous experience, because they will accept lower hourly pay, then it sounds like you have chosen your own poison. Did you think you would have a no-skill high paying job forever?
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
You're thinking about one company, not a market. A single company can set thier own wages but they have to raise or lower them depending on what workers are willing to accept. They will pay you little unless you can show them that you are worth that extra income (additional skills, experience). If you work in an industry where somone is taking your job with no previous experience, because they will accept lower hourly pay, then it sounds like you have chosen your own poison. Did you think you would have a no-skill high paying job forever?
This goes for all corporations, they set the market by who they hire. My husband has 20 years experience and it doesnt matter how much he knows, someone will always come in less, which is a fact of life, it happens, but to lose it to someone that is not a legal citizen is wrong. See what you dont get is you can go to school and know more than anyone else it doesnt matter, someone will come along and be able to make it on less again thatsd the way it is in any job. And who are you to say we have no skill? And if you think 10.00 an hour is high paying you are living in a dream world!!!
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:23 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,525 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Well we have owned our own business, 11 years as a home builder. And because we refused to hire illegals and do shoddy work we lost our business. We took less profit but big builders wanted faster and faster and cheaper. So subs hired illegals and cut corners. I went to college I have four kids, we pay all our bills,we work 12-14 hour days, but we manage, we are not rich, no one but the big boys we know are. All scraping by. But to have to pay for our own and the illegals, isnt right no matter how you spin it, it isnt a scapegoat it is a fact.
It sounds like you didn't have a competitive edge. I do know that home construction depends on local markets, that may have been part of the problem. Perhaps the market just dried up: a consequence that has nothing to do with illegal workers. If you are thriving, or even surviving, it seems that the illegal workers may not have that much impact on your business.
Also, every industry has their wal-marts and thier Macy's. If you built a better quality product and you fail, it is not simply because you were undercut by another builder with cheaper labor. You just need to find your niche.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:29 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,525 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
... someone will come along and be able to make it on less again thatsd the way it is in any job. And who are you to say we have no skill? And if you think 10.00 an hour is high paying you are living in a dream world!!!
I have no idea what your experience or skill is. My point is, if you are in a skilled industry, you have to be competing against other skilled workers. You have to give yourself an edge. If anyone could do your job, you are an un-skilled laborer and the only factor is wage. You cannot lose a skilled job to an unskilled laborer, by definition, no matter how low the wage.

Last edited by jest721; 01-22-2007 at 02:29 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
It sounds like you didn't have a competitive edge. I do know that home construction depends on local markets, that may have been part of the problem. Perhaps the market just dried up: a consequence that has nothing to do with illegal workers. If you are thriving, or even surviving, it seems that the illegal workers may not have that much impact on your business.
Also, every industry has their wal-marts and thier Macy's. If you built a better quality product and you fail, it is not simply because you were undercut by another builder with cheaper labor. You just need to find your niche.
You really have no clue do you? market didnt dry up, the builders wanted cheaper, faster, which we couldnt do paying all the taxes and comp we had to. A competive edge? Yea we wouldnt hire illegals!!!! Niche, yea hire illegals!!!! I think you will be in for a big surprise with your kids, you really need to be worried.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I have no idea what your experience or skill is. My point is, if you are in a skilled industry, you have to be competing against other skilled workers. You have to give yourself an edge. If anyone could do your job, you are an un-skilled laborer and the only factor is wage. You cannot lose a skilled job to an unskilled laborer, by definition, no matter how low the wage.
What do you consider skilled? I went to college, so did my husband, doesnt matter, I think you miss the point, we have no problem losing out on jobs to other hard working americans, thats the way it goes, but to lose any job to an illegal is wrong , I dont care what you do.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:34 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,525 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
You really have no clue do you? market didnt dry up, the builders wanted cheaper, faster, which we couldnt do paying all the taxes and comp we had to. A competive edge? Yea we wouldnt hire illegals!!!! Niche, yea hire illegals!!!! I think you will be in for a big surprise with your kids, you really need to be worried.
If your quality was better, then you should have exploited it. People will pay more for higher quality in any industry, and better quality isn't something you can get with inexperienced laborers. If your costs are higher than a competing business, you have to find something to give you an edge. It sounds like you didn't do that.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:37 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,525 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
What do you consider skilled? I went to college, so did my husband, doesnt matter, I think you miss the point, we have no problem losing out on jobs to other hard working americans, thats the way it goes, but to lose any job to an illegal is wrong , I dont care what you do.
If you graduate from college and then get a job at a fast food register, that is not skilled. If your occupation takes years of training, apprenticeship, licensure, or unique skill, that makes you a skilled laborer.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
If your quality was better, then you should have exploited it. People will pay more for higher quality in any industry, and better quality isn't something you can get with inexperienced laborers. If your costs are higher than a competing business, you have to find something to give you an edge. It sounds like you didn't do that.
Again no idea!!! builders do not care about quality, my god I wish they did. I think you will be in for a big surprise. NO one wants to pay more, if you are equally skilled they will go for the cheaper one, if you are higher skilled you will be over qualified. We did exploit it, we were told they can get it done cheaper and faster. hense less quality. we were old it isnt quality that counts it is quantity. the buying public really have no idea what true quality is, they are not built like they used to be.
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