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Old 06-04-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, with the support of the same government that oppressed descendants of slaves were able to fight on. Now we just place the third world in slavery. By virtue of being in the US, there was a LARGE advantage, once slavery was abolished. They are fighting, the same ways that others fought for freedom, but it didn't come untill much later. Also why are there disparities between the descendants of slaves and those not from a slave past? Look, the system is not completely fixed...even here in the US.
Exactly what was that ďadvantage?Ē Surely it wasnít segregation, lynching, church bombings, or any of the myriad other injustices. I refuse to believe that Mexican peasants have no recourse but to flee to the US, oftentimes abandoning their families, to seek a better life. How is that solving their problems? More importantly, why are we obligated to embrace them? I believe in helping folks who will as least put forth the effort to help themselves. I don't believe in assisting them in living in denial or evading their problems.

The disparity between the descendants of slaves and others can be attributed to numerous factors. One salient factor is personal accountability. Unlike some who refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings of members of their race/ethnicity, I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

Rather than post a treatise on the Black Experience in the US, I would rather focus on the issue at hand; which is illegal immigration. Mexican illegal aliens could fight to improve conditions in their country, if only they had the will, and if they didnít have the U.S. as a convenient safely valve. Itís time for the U.S. to cut the umbilical cord.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:52 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Exactly what was that ďadvantage?Ē Surely it wasnít segregation, lynching, church bombings, or any of the myriad other injustices. I refuse to believe that Mexican peasants have no recourse but to flee to the US, oftentimes abandoning their families, to seek a better life. How is that solving their problems? More importantly, why are we obligated to embrace them? I believe in helping folks who will as least put forth the effort to help themselves. I don't believe in assisting them in living in denial or evading their problems.

It was living in a first world nation, it was having an army back you up during the civil war, it was being brought into a system that was in a good position of being a world leader, it was the advantage of later having equal access to the top univerisities, good public schools, good hospitals. So yeah, there was a little help there. Granted that help came too little too late, but it came. See the irony of the entire situation is that we subject the third world and ridicule them...modern slavery. Yet, there is no support to end it. So, it will continue as long as people share your worldview. Again, you seem to think that there is a lack of desire and want. There is, but $ talks. And the $ is saying it's better to keep 'em down. Part of the reason why segregation was not good was because it was bad for business...imagine not being able to reach out to 20% of the US population, you're business will not be as profitable. Slavery well, if you have an underclass...that decreases earning potential.

See, in the West we figure if it happens abroad...that's okay. Trillions are still made if a global underclass is created. $ speaks. You have shirts from sweatshops from Vietnam, Mexico, Honduras...you buy toys made in China, India, and Laos. You're chocolate is from Ivory Coast, Ghana, or Nigeria. You're coffee you had this morning? Brazil, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Venezula. What do all these countries have in common? Well, they are poor, low scale countries. They are either a source of cheap labor (China, Vietnam, India)or cheap commodities (Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Venezula). They can't rise further due to the power and economic structure currently in place.

The disparity between the descendants of slaves and others can be attributed to numerous factors. One salient factor is personal accountability. Unlike some who refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings of members of their race/ethnicity, I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

What about the fact that majority Black schools are older, lack funds, have newer teachers, and consistently are overcrowded? There is a problem in the system as well. Personal accountability is a reaction to environment. That's all. If you have a poor environment, you will have to adapt and thrive in the best way possible. In these places, crime pays the bills.

Rather than post a treatise on the Black Experience in the US, I would rather focus on the issue at hand; which is illegal immigration. Mexican illegal aliens could fight to improve conditions in their country, if only they had the will, and if they didnít have the U.S. as a convenient safely valve. Itís time for the U.S. to cut the umbilical cord.

See, the bigger issue is not illegal immigration. On the contrary, that is the small issue at hand. It's the social injustices and economic inequalities that we fail to mention. Fair trade is a start. As well as investing in poorer districts. I know people will say that this is "communist" or what have you. It's not. It's simply morality.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:57 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It just cracks me up that because someone claims to have "lived it" that the rest of the World can't understand what is going on.

I didn't have to live through the freaking bombing of Hiroshima to understand what started the war, why the weapon was used and the horrible after-math that lives on even today.

SHEEESH
I agree with you (I HOPE I still have the right to agree with somebody). I've never been gang-raped, lynched, or falsely imprisoned; likewise, I've never won the lottery or stolen a car, killed a person, or used methamphetamines...Nevertheless, I have strong opinions on EACH of these issues, and many more as well...that, DESPITE the fact that I've "never lived the life".
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:06 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Exactly what was that ďadvantage?Ē Surely it wasnít segregation, lynching, church bombings, or any of the myriad other injustices. I refuse to believe that Mexican peasants have no recourse but to flee to the US, oftentimes abandoning their families, to seek a better life. How is that solving their problems? More importantly, why are we obligated to embrace them? I believe in helping folks who will as least put forth the effort to help themselves. I don't believe in assisting them in living in denial or evading their problems.

It was living in a first world nation, it was having an army back you up during the civil war, it was being brought into a system that was in a good position of being a world leader, it was the advantage of later having equal access to the top univerisities, good public schools, good hospitals. So yeah, there was a little help there. Granted that help came too little too late, but it came. See the irony of the entire situation is that we subject the third world and ridicule them...modern slavery. Yet, there is no support to end it. So, it will continue as long as people share your worldview. Again, you seem to think that there is a lack of desire and want. There is, but $ talks. And the $ is saying it's better to keep 'em down. Part of the reason why segregation was not good was because it was bad for business...imagine not being able to reach out to 20% of the US population, you're business will not be as profitable. Slavery well, if you have an underclass...that decreases earning potential.

See, in the West we figure if it happens abroad...that's okay. Trillions are still made if a global underclass is created. $ speaks. You have shirts from sweatshops from Vietnam, Mexico, Honduras...you buy toys made in China, India, and Laos. You're chocolate is from Ivory Coast, Ghana, or Nigeria. You're coffee you had this morning? Brazil, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Venezula. What do all these countries have in common? Well, they are poor, low scale countries. They are either a source of cheap labor (China, Vietnam, India)or cheap commodities (Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Venezula). They can't rise further due to the power and economic structure currently in place.

The disparity between the descendants of slaves and others can be attributed to numerous factors. One salient factor is personal accountability. Unlike some who refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings of members of their race/ethnicity, I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

What about the fact that majority Black schools are older, lack funds, have newer teachers, and consistently are overcrowded? There is a problem in the system as well. Personal accountability is a reaction to environment. That's all. If you have a poor environment, you will have to adapt and thrive in the best way possible. In these places, crime pays the bills.

Rather than post a treatise on the Black Experience in the US, I would rather focus on the issue at hand; which is illegal immigration. Mexican illegal aliens could fight to improve conditions in their country, if only they had the will, and if they didnít have the U.S. as a convenient safely valve. Itís time for the U.S. to cut the umbilical cord.

See, the bigger issue is not illegal immigration. On the contrary, that is the small issue at hand. It's the social injustices and economic inequalities that we fail to mention. Fair trade is a start. As well as investing in poorer districts. I know people will say that this is "communist" or what have you. It's not. It's simply morality.
Benicar, sounds like you lose. You just don't have the background to comment on this subject..but shucks, don't feel bad....no one does. I thought I knew a few things, too...sadly, like you, I found I was mistaken.

The best thing folks like us can do, apparently, is to keep our 'mouths shut and our ears open'. Let's step aside here and learn from those who KNOW about these things.

Best of luck to you....and remember..."It's not your fault" Living here in America, there's just no way you COULD have known any better.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:11 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It just cracks me up that because someone claims to have "lived it" that the rest of the World can't understand what is going on.

I didn't have to live through the freaking bombing of Hiroshima to understand what started the war, why the weapon was used and the horrible after-math that lives on even today.

SHEEESH
What cracks me up is people saying inane comments without a base knowledge

You understand fire. You undertand pain. You studied about Hiroshima. You have basis to form those opinions.

You grew up in the First World. At worst, you grew up with electricity, running water, but no TV. You were able to attend decent public schools. You have no bearing whatsoever to comprehend extreme poverty. It's simply not something you ever learned or knew. You're opinions are vast and over-arching...over the bounds of what you know.

If you didn't know pain, fire, or have a history of Hiroshima...you would not be able to form your opinions on the subject. And your opinions probably are not as developed as say as survivor of Hiroshima, or professor that teaches Atomic History (real class BTW...good class).
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:15 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Benicar, sounds like you lose. You just don't have the background to comment on this subject..but shucks, don't feel bad....no one does. I thought I knew a few things, too...sadly, like you, I found I was mistaken.

I miss that old fashion ****ty, juvenile sarcasm of yours. Never gets old. Never makes a point either.

The best thing folks like us can do, apparently, is to keep our 'mouths shut and our ears open'. Let's step aside here and learn from those who KNOW about these things.

No, just learn a thing or two when you go on ranting about "Third World this" or "poor people that". Even though we all can't be like the mighty MacMeal...people from the Third World have their virtues.

Best of luck to you....and remember..."It's not your fault" Living here in America, there's just no way you COULD have known any better.

I expected a better ending. Actually no, I take that back. Started on the old sarcasm train...ended on the same line.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:16 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,013,914 times
Reputation: 17978
There was a compromise during Reagans presidency in which amnesty was given with the paln to stop illegal imagration form then on and to spend the moeny needed. teh amnesty happened and then nothign basicallt because congress blocked the funding. The law passed then stril hasn;t been enforced. So why compromise whith a side that will block any part but what they wanted. Anyone sicne the last amnesty7 is illegally here and must sufer for violating that law just as it gave amnesty to those then.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:18 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
I agree with you (I HOPE I still have the right to agree with somebody). I've never been gang-raped, lynched, or falsely imprisoned; likewise, I've never won the lottery or stolen a car, killed a person, or used methamphetamines...Nevertheless, I have strong opinions on EACH of these issues, and many more as well...that, DESPITE the fact that I've "never lived the life".

You have a base knowledge of those experience (pain...you've been hit, punched, in a fight, or falsely accused of something)...and smaller experiences on the matter (as well as opinions. you don't comment on why these things happen, or how, or any resolutions...at least beyond your scope). But you're opinions on this are not taking other factors into consideration...yet make HUGE sweeping generalizations, stereotypes, and well...ill informed opinions.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:25 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I agree with you (I HOPE I still have the right to agree with somebody). I've never been gang-raped, lynched, or falsely imprisoned; likewise, I've never won the lottery or stolen a car, killed a person, or used methamphetamines...Nevertheless, I have strong opinions on EACH of these issues, and many more as well...that, DESPITE the fact that I've "never lived the life".

You have a base knowledge of those experience (pain...you've been hit, punched, in a fight, or falsely accused of something)...and smaller experiences on the matter (as well as opinions. you don't comment on why these things happen, or how, or any resolutions...at least beyond your scope). But you're opinions on this are not taking other factors into consideration...yet make HUGE sweeping generalizations, stereotypes, and well...ill informed opinions.
Guess I'm just "me"....ill-informed, rough around the edges....don't even know how to SPELL 'multiculturalism'...but with a 'heart of gold' nevertheless...(at least, I MEAN well)..

(PS...How come when YOU scold us on the forum for our ignorance, it's OK...but when I AGREE with you, it suddenly becomes 'sarcasm'?...)
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:34 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Guess I'm just "me"....ill-informed, rough around the edges....don't even know how to SPELL 'multiculturalism'...but with a 'heart of gold' nevertheless...(at least, I MEAN well)..

Well, at least you're nearly at terms with yourself...Good for you
Admitting that you are ill-informed is good first step. Maybe next will be stop bashing those from the Third World? Yeah and the tooth fairy exists. We ll, we can hope, right? One day you might actually look at other factors that create the circumstances of the Third World...lol...I was just kidding. You don't have to. It'd be too hard for you...but at the very least you got this far. Congrats!

(PS...How come when YOU scold us on the forum for our ignorance, it's OK...but when I AGREE with you, it suddenly becomes 'sarcasm'?...)

Gee...I wonder why? Seriously, why am I actually able to see sarcastic comments...along with others.

I can see why you like typing in this manner. It is fun being sarcastic over the internet without making any contributing point.
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