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Old 02-20-2010, 10:36 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453

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I do know the greedy illegal practices of large farmer businesses is biting them in the a$$. I've been smart enough to not buy into their dependence. Regarding my "made up opinions" What? My opinions are that. Mine. I live it. You've shown no factual information regarding the positives of illegal alien business dealings (what this forum is about) except to say greedy businesses will fold. So be it. As a farmer, I'll help my community as I do today. Oh, and...my farm partners, those in the field right along side of me are elderly, young, white and even a new small group of misplaced poor who relocated to our area during a prison relocation (to be close to their incarcerated family member) are black by the way. The hispanic community trying to find work here can't, not one has been found to be legal, so they leave. Bye-bye!

 
Old 02-20-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
I'd also like to add, Clarks, that we will probably need to agree that we will be in constant disagreement as we view things from polar opposites. You defending larger corporate and I smaller community based farming. I understand the unfounded concerns equating to magnanimous proportions but believe it can be rectified with a community approach. Your opinions are respected regarding your position of formation, I just disagree by proof of living in a normal American life.
Again.

Last edited by getout; 02-20-2010 at 12:11 PM..
 
Old 02-20-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,522 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
I do know the greedy illegal practices of large farmer businesses is biting them in the a$$.
Not mine, I have no greedy illegal practices, as I have stated numerous times apparently to no avail, Growers don't hire field labor.

Getout, I know that on small very small farms white labor, teens etc., can work. But when a farmer needs 30 men at 6:30 AM 6 days a week 10 hours a day for one week, then nothing for a month, then "pickup" labor isn't going to cut it.

Few people want to work those hours, white people have chosen other avenues, and typically so have the second generation Mexicans, which is why there is a constant need for first generation. and since the guvment cannot get motivated to create a guest worker program like the successful bracero program the contractor will hire who walks in the door.
By the way, legal or illegal, the paperwork is in order. A contractor using 1,000 to 1,500 workers cannot go through each set of papers to determine forgery.

These hated illegals pay property tax as part of their rent, they pay sales tax when they shop, they have SS and workmens comp and incometax withheld just like everyone else, to say that they are a burden on society just does not hold water.

Now, lets take one small valley. According to a year 2,000 study, there are are approximately 150,000 farm workers and family members in the Salinas Valley, that number seems high to me, but even if we cut it by 50% we are talking about 75,000 people.

That is what is required in one small valley to plant, tend and harvest the crops. If as some people wish, the 85 percent or so of this number who are illegal are picked up and removed, the crops will not get harvested, sure the grower goes broke, but so does every business from AG supply to Safeway to the Dollar Store.

The end result of e verify or any other removal program is economic collapse.

There are those who have no problem with that, yet complained about the damage to the US economy from 9/11, oh duh.

The answer is clear, it is a guest worker program that works, the H2A program doesn't, and it was designed as a sop to the anti immigration people, and designed to be ineffective.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 12:24 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
by getout
I'd also like to add, Clarks, that we will probably need to agree that we will be in constant disagreement as we view things from polar opposites. You defending larger corporate and I smaller community based farming. I understand the unfounded concerns equating to magnanimous proportions but believe it can be rectified with a community approach. Your opinions are respected regarding your position of formation, I just disagree by proof of living in a normal American life.
Again, repeating what I said to you.

I just have to say I think your last post (Clarks) is crap. Illegals are known to send money back to their country of origin, stay in illegal housing, use our SS, far exceeding any benefit to this country if they pay a few piddling taxes like sales. It is a shame, a shame that greedy corporations have made it the peoples burden. There will just have to be better oppotunities created for others who need to leave those companies... I'm sure someone with a sharp pencil can come up with something. There is no justification for the practice of hiring illegal aliens and it's continuance. It's like saying, "Ok, we got greedy, made it impossible for you to live without us, so keep paying us for it." I've found a way around it, as have others.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453
I do have a question. (Clarks) If you do not promote the legalization of illegal immigrants, amnesty, as you have precluded over and over again you do not hire illegals but we need "guest workers", why are you in the illegal immigration forum? Why not take it over to legal immigration and pound your beef there? Not once have I encountered here anyone against legal immigration, a slowdown perhaps until we get this issue out of the way, and tweaking our legal immigration laws eventually. Why the illegal immigration forum if you are not for amnesty? Or are you?

To me it's like saying, awe, give Ted Bundy a break, yeah, he's a criminal but he really is an upstanding guy, smart, funny, except for that one thing.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,522 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
I just have to say I think your last post (Clarks) is crap.
Just when I thought I was communicating with a human;(

Why am I here? Few things make me happier in life than poking ideologues in the eye with sharp facts.

I do recognize however, that facts will never defeat beliefs and ideology, just look at all the people that believe in creationism and dis belief man caused climate change.

but, there is perhaps on this or other forums someone, lurking who will wake up and say,
Hey, these benighted folk are wrong on nearly every fact.

My point, just in case someone missed it is, Illegal workers are embedded in our agricultural economy. They cannot be removed without causing enormous economic dislocation. If all you want to do is whine, well then whine, but that aint' gonna solve anything.

Last edited by Clarks; 02-20-2010 at 01:28 PM..
 
Old 02-20-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,026,686 times
Reputation: 2377
[quote=Clarks;12980254]
Apparently you missed the part where I said growers don't hire workers. I guess I have to explain it to you, field labor is supplied by contractors. If I need a crew, I call the contractor, they supply the workers, they pay the workers, I and the rest of the growers have nothing to do with the field workers except giving them directions.

WHO pays the contractor?
 
Old 02-20-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Central Coast
2,014 posts, read 4,721,522 times
Reputation: 815
Why do I think I am communicating with people that have never managed a business. Dear Tulani, Who do you think pays the contractor? and, I am sure you have a point, but you are wrong. So, go ahead make it.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 05:46 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,138,677 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Why do I think I am communicating with people that have never managed a business. Dear Tulani, Who do you think pays the contractor? and, I am sure you have a point, but you are wrong. So, go ahead make it.
Honestly, Clarks, I have managed businesses and still to this day and am successful. The hardest was construction, steel fabrication/installation. The easiest, my sweet farm deal. It pays the bills, mine and theirs-win -win. As a woman, I did NOT have to enact a minority clause, but I could have, I did not have to fit any Affirmitive Action, I hired who did the work well. Skilled labor and paid them well too, pay people well and they stay. The only reason I left construction (yet still have my husband working it) to farming was to live my dream. On the side, I sell "jogging suits" at local markets, at a fair price because I get them at a fair price. I pay my taxes. The only concern was when said suits were becoming too expensive because many greedy American companies started using cheap labor. I adjusted my costs by taking cuts, I still deal with an American company based out of NC, they are more expensive because they are American made, but people pay more for that and love doing it. Putting millions into starving lines will never happen. Our government will not let that happen again because they know we know who is at fault here this time.
 
Old 02-20-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,026,686 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks View Post
Why do I think I am communicating with people that have never managed a business. Dear Tulani, Who do you think pays the contractor? and, I am sure you have a point, but you are wrong. So, go ahead make it.
Of course, YOU pay the contractor and it is YOUR responsibility to make sure the crew that works for YOU is legal. The damn contractors love the illegals.
However, I am sure you will come back and say you have no control over who they bring in.
There are numerous posts on this forum about people hiring contractors to do a job for them and then they fired the contractor and crew because of illegal crew members.
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