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I disagree with previous statements that it's the applicant's responsibility to track down people they no longer have any relationship with. It's the applicant's responsibility to provide factual information about their work and education history and their skills and qualifications. It is HR's responsibility to conduct a background check. Applicants aren't private investigators (unless of course, they are in fact a private investigator and applying for a job to be one....)
What if OP's former supervisor were dead? Would the company refuse to offer her a job because her former supervisor had the audacity to die? HR should be contacting the employer provided, if they are still in business, to confirm the facts of the applicant's application. If they want more qualitative information, that's what references and personal interviews are for.
From a legal standpoint, the biggest problem I see with this situation is this HR chick's insistence upon the participation of the former supervisor. A supervisor's responsibility in giving references extends only so long as they are employed by that former company. Once they have left, for whatever reason, their responsibilities are over. HR chick has no right to intrude on their life or to impose the obligation of references and background checks on them. Furthermore, what if the supervisor now works for a competitor? HR chick could very well be jeopardizing their job by contacting them or attempting to coerce a reference. She has no right to intrude upon the former supervisor's life. It's not the supervisor who is applying for the job.
I think your advice on most posts is spot on, but on this issue disagree.
As I posted earlier I was in a similar situation. The HR rep kept asking for more and more information, but it was on "onesie,twosie" basis.
He asked for references, then he wanted copies of my current jobs performance reviews, then salary history, etc.
When I told him we were on a salary freeze to avoid layoffs at my current job at the university I worked for he said "I find that hard to believe".
He then wanted a reference from my current boss, that was when I went over his head.
I had enough of the lack of professional behavior and left a calm voice mail explaining what was going on to the woman who would be my boss.
She called me back and apologized and said that is not the way they should treat job candidates and the job was mine if I wanted it.
The OP isn't doing anything wrong, there is nothing wrong with saying to her perspective boss in a calm email/v mail what is going on and just sticking with the facts.
Again, if this HR women needed more information then the four references provided she should have stated that when she started the hiring process.
I can almost guarantee there will be another "roadblock" that will pop up.
Can I just say to HR person to contact ex boss through LinkedIn? This Hr person has an account with LinkedIn but still wants me to get phone number which she could easily get on her own for free....what is your opinion?
Can I just say to HR person to contact ex boss through LinkedIn? This Hr person has an account with LinkedIn but still wants me to get phone number which she could easily get on her own for free....what is your opinion?
You have been looking for a job for 1.5 years. Don't blow it.
You already emailed the hiring manager twice with issues. First time was because HR called your tel# but didn't leave a VM. You saw the tel# on caller id and then contacted the hiring manager. Here's the link to that post I am getting close to get this job but....
Second time you contacted the hiring mgr was yesterday because HR is asking for various references. I would not push back on them again at this point. I would try to get that phone# that HR wants.
You don't want to spend the $20, not because you don't have it, but because you don't agree with how HR is going about it.
Basically, you want to get into a debate of right/wrong with HR, at this point in the process.
If it was me and I really wanted the job, I would not debate HR and go against their request. They requested that YOU get the tel# from linkedin, You are able to do this, it just costs $20, you have the money.
Did you ever hear of the term "win the battle and lost the war?". Your sitiation could very well do this. You could win the battle of getting HR to use linkedin to get that phone#(so you don't have to spend $20). BUT...you could LOSE the job offer(that's the war you lost, over winning the battle.)
Of course, this is just my opinion. Seain doesn't agree with me on this one, but IMO, Seain is slightly tainted on this HR subject due to past experiences with HR as described above. Your situation is not that bad at this point, IMO.
But I think my advice is pretty solid. Take it or leave it.
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I'm with sware2cod.
If the $20 isn't a problem, then pay it. The more obstacles you throw in the HR person's way, the harder he/she is going to push against you. I'm not so sure that sending copies of the email to the Administrator you want to work for is a good idea, either. If the HR person finds that out, you may have cut off your nose to spite your face.
My advice (since you asked us to keep it coming) is to cooperate as much as possible, as cheerfully and professionally as possible. Show you can work with someone outside your department and will help solve the problem.
Do not lie or ask your friends to lie for you under any circumstances. Let me repeat that: Do not lie or ask your friends to lie for you under any circumstances. If, for some reason, they discover that you did so after you've been hired, you are subject to immediate termination. These people question references all the time; it may not be so easy to fool them.
Yes, talk to the Administrator who wants to hire you, but do not accuse the HR person of anything. Be objective about it, explain that your former supervisor has moved on and can't be reached and ask if there's any way he or she can talk to HR about it.
And previous posters are right. They can hire whomever they wish and deny whomever they wish, even if they didn't like the blouse you wore that day, as long as it's not discriminatory.
You have been looking for a job for 1.5 years. Don't blow it.
You already emailed the hiring manager twice with issues. First time was because HR called your tel# but didn't leave a VM. You saw the tel# on caller id and then contacted the hiring manager. Here's the link to that post I am getting close to get this job but....
Second time you contacted the hiring mgr was yesterday because HR is asking for various references. I would not push back on them again at this point. I would try to get that phone# that HR wants.
You don't want to spend the $20, not because you don't have it, but because you don't agree with how HR is going about it.
Basically, you want to get into a debate of right/wrong with HR, at this point in the process.
If it was me and I really wanted the job, I would not debate HR and go against their request. They requested that YOU get the tel# from linkedin, You are able to do this, it just costs $20, you have the money.
Did you ever hear of the term "win the battle and lost the war?". Your sitiation could very well do this. You could win the battle of getting HR to use linkedin to get that phone#(so you don't have to spend $20). BUT...you could LOSE the job offer(that's the war you lost, over winning the battle.)
Of course, this is just my opinion. Seain doesn't agree with me on this one, but IMO, Seain is slightly tainted on this HR subject due to past experiences with HR as described above. Your situation is not that bad at this point, IMO.
But I think my advice is pretty solid. Take it or leave it.
Actually I just noticed today that I don't have to pay $20. My request to connect him went through I am just waiting for his reply. What if he doesn't reply or it will take long, what should I do?
I disagree with previous statements that it's the applicant's responsibility to track down people they no longer have any relationship with. It's the applicant's responsibility to provide factual information about their work and education history and their skills and qualifications. It is HR's responsibility to conduct a background check. Applicants aren't private investigators (unless of course, they are in fact a private investigator and applying for a job to be one....)
What if OP's former supervisor were dead? Would the company refuse to offer her a job because her former supervisor had the audacity to die? HR should be contacting the employer provided, if they are still in business, to confirm the facts of the applicant's application. If they want more qualitative information, that's what references and personal interviews are for.
From a legal standpoint, the biggest problem I see with this situation is this HR chick's insistence upon the participation of the former supervisor. A supervisor's responsibility in giving references extends only so long as they are employed by that former company. Once they have left, for whatever reason, their responsibilities are over. HR chick has no right to intrude on their life or to impose the obligation of references and background checks on them. Furthermore, what if the supervisor now works for a competitor? HR chick could very well be jeopardizing their job by contacting them or attempting to coerce a reference. She has no right to intrude upon the former supervisor's life. It's not the supervisor who is applying for the job.
That's exactly right, and many supervisors are instructed not to give out references but only refer questions to HR. The supervisor could be breaking his own company's policies by providing a reference.
Also a lot of employers don't find the references to be all that reliable because most people can find someone who will write a nice enough letter for them or feel sorry enough for someone looking for a job to say only nice things.
I think it's a good idea to save annual reviews because those are actually what is said about job performance at the time.
This reminds me of a situation I had a while back. I had just moved to a new state and was driving my father's 15 year old beater Saturn that I inherited from him when he passed away. When I went to register the car and transfer the title, the DMV wanted me to hire a lawyer and get a dated letter of testamentary with an official seal. Did I spend hundreds of dollars and get a lawyer to register a crap car that I later traded in for $200. No I went to another facility and forged my father's signature on the title. Sometimes it is necessary to be pragmatic and step around road blocks.
Just fake it. Though i suspect this HR dolt will find more things to mess with you about. I swear companies need to confine these HR monkeys back to their cages and make them stop interfering with people who are actually trying to add value to their company rather than pretending to.
Would you rather save $20 and lose out on the job? Only you can make this choice. or maybe do some googling and try to find the tel# of that manger. Try veromi.com or zabasearch.com one of those sites has the tel# for free. Try it.
Or get into a debate with HR and get the hiring manager between the 2 of you? This also risks that you lose out on the job, as the hiring manager would see red flags that you might be a high maintenance employee.
This must be a medical thing. I recently got hired by a company that runs clinics all over the US. This was for a job managing the construction of the clinics in a region. All the interviews with the construction people were fine and I received an informal offer via phone and email from the head of that business unit, after he had checked some of my references, some of which were supervisors and some were clients or contractors I had worked on projects with.
Then the HR person got involved and needed the same 2 direct supervisor crap except from the last two companies I worked for. It was not a huge problem, except one of the people she called was someone that only gives dates of employment because they are terrified of lawsuits (small company and this is the owners wife who does HR) I had to end up calling another person there (COO) to do me a favor and talk to the HR person and it was OK in the end.
Not sure what they would have done if they stuck to their guns and would not talk to them.
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