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Old 04-03-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,509,283 times
Reputation: 5415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSMom View Post
KCI Airport is much better compared to some other airports I've been too. Easy access to get in/out for your flights and to pick up your relatives when they arrive/depart, etc.


I flew into BWI (Baltimore) a few months ago and it was a horrible experience. BWI airport is "consolidated" and a very LONG walk just to the luggage pick up area. We flew on Southwest which is located at the end of the airport. Luggage pickup area was on the complete opposite end of the airport. When you arrive back at the airport to return to KC you have to walk the entire length of it just to get to the Southwest gates.

My husband had to keep driving around the BWI airport because traffic was horrible. It would take him at least 20 - 25 minutes before he could drive back around to where he could pick us up. The Baltimore police won't allow anyone parked at the curb to pick up anyone for longer than 1 or 2 minutes. It was very frustrating!! Ohh.. and this was at "midnight" and the airport was PACKED full of people trying to get their luggage and leave. That experience made me appreciate KCI Airport. You never have traffic problems like that at KCI.

Several years ago I flew into Dallas airport and it was horrible trying to get from area to another. The airport is just too big. Huge airports make it harder on anyone who has any medical issues to walk to get out of it but your medicial issues might not require a wheelchair. KCI is more convenient.

When I returned from my trip from Baltimore to KCI it was so nice to walk off the plane and out of the airport within about 5 minutes. Restroom was close by too. Our ride was able to pick us up within about 5 minutes after circling the KCI parking lot too.

I really hope they don't consolidate KCI into one huge terminal.
I fly out of BWI a couple of times a month and I just don't see any of this. Some of the Southwest gates are just as close to the checkpoints as they are at KCI while the gates furthest away are not more than a 3 minute walk, especially with the moving sidewalks. Picking up baggage is the same way. It's not clear on the other side of the airport, it's simply on the first floor and your gate could be right on top of it, but you are never more than five minutes from it and baggage always takes 10-15 minutes to reach the carousels anyway in any airport. Did you go to the wrong terminal or something? Southwest has a huge terminal nearly all to itself, but I guess if you went to another terminal it could be a long walk.

Even though there is no traffic on KCI terminal streets, you still can't just sit out there and wait for passengers. You will get run off by airport police there too. BWI has a huge parking garage directly across the the street from the southwest terminal that cost like 2 bucks to park in. The garage at terminal B at KCI is nearly always full and not at easy to use while the ten story garage at BWI is huge and you can always find parking across one of the skywalks for a very short walk to the terminal.

I'll take BWI any day over KCI. More flights to more cities and more amenities at the airport while you are there and it's just as easy to use and navigate. It's 1000 times better if connecting. I see people using BWI to connect via Southwest all the time. People avoid KCI like the plague when connecting. That's just one reason in a long list of reasons why Southwest has lost interest in expanding at KCI.

Your experience at DFW also seems crazy. At least DFW has trams between the terminals. Imagine having to go outside and wait for a little red bus to show up (that could take 30 minutes) to take you to another terminal. Now that can be a "horrible" experience if you are trying to catch another flight.

Nothing personal, but your entire post makes you sound kind of "country bumpkin" BWI is a relatively easy to use mid sized airport and yet even that place intimidates people in KC. Airports are really not that difficult to use and figure out and most are not that bad, especially BWI.

Any airport takes a little getting used to. People are used to KCI and when they travel to other airports, they seem big, confusing etc. If KCI had a new terminal, I think people in KC would figure it out and get used to it as well and they would find out that a new terminal is not so scary after all and worth having. I still love the idea of having places to eat (just the very basics) after I'm clear of security. In KCI you have almost nothing. I also like the idea of more non stops to more cities including international. I would think KC would like that too.

Having said all this. It's sounding like the new terminal at KCI is really starting to generate a lot of opposition. I would bet the city and aviation department eventually pull the plug on the idea and give up due to lack of local support. If that's the case, it will just be another thing that will set KC back when it should be doing things to modernize itself. A new terminal is not going to change KC, but it will help. KC has got to stop being so afraid of change and so scared to spend money on innovative public infrastructure. If you never build new airports, light rail etc, it eventually catches up to you and KC is kind of in that situation now.

Last edited by kcmo; 04-03-2013 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,665 posts, read 5,645,122 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSMom View Post
KCI Airport is much better compared to some other airports I've been too. Easy access to get in/out for your flights and to pick up your relatives when they arrive/depart, etc.


I flew into BWI (Baltimore) a few months ago and it was a horrible experience. BWI airport is "consolidated" and a very LONG walk just to the luggage pick up area. We flew on Southwest which is located at the end of the airport. Luggage pickup area was on the complete opposite end of the airport. When you arrive back at the airport to return to KC you have to walk the entire length of it just to get to the Southwest gates.

My husband had to keep driving around the BWI airport because traffic was horrible. It would take him at least 20 - 25 minutes before he could drive back around to where he could pick us up. The Baltimore police won't allow anyone parked at the curb to pick up anyone for longer than 1 or 2 minutes. It was very frustrating!! Ohh.. and this was at "midnight" and the airport was PACKED full of people trying to get their luggage and leave. That experience made me appreciate KCI Airport. You never have traffic problems like that at KCI.

Several years ago I flew into Dallas airport and it was horrible trying to get from area to another. The airport is just too big. Huge airports make it harder on anyone who has any medical issues to walk to get out of it but your medicial issues might not require a wheelchair. KCI is more convenient.

When I returned from my trip from Baltimore to KCI it was so nice to walk off the plane and out of the airport within about 5 minutes. Restroom was close by too. Our ride was able to pick us up within about 5 minutes after circling the KCI parking lot too.

I really hope they don't consolidate KCI into one huge terminal.
Excellent first post and I want to thank you for taking the time. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

KCI was a unique and refreshing design, making it uniquely convenient among large city airports. It wasn't designed to be operated in a police state, nor should any American airport be. The TSA security that is most often cited as the necessity for a very expensive rebuild of the terminal is the problem - not KCI's design. Unfortunately, way too few do any reflection on how it is that just a few short decades ago it was perfectly reasonable to treat people with respect and the presumption of innocence in this country. Moving toward more and more draconian security at airports and other public facilities was the wrong approach from day one.

For years this forum has been polluted with negativity toward positive and refreshing posts like yours, and we already see that nothing has changed. My advice is to just ignore it and know that there are plenty of us who share your sensible perspective.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,509,046 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Having said all this. It's sounding like the new terminal at KCI is really starting to generate a lot of opposition. I would bet the city and aviation department eventually pull the plug on the idea and give up due to lack of local support. If that's the case, it will just be another thing that will set KC back when it should be doing things to modernize itself. A new terminal is not going to change KC, but it will help. KC has got to stop being so afraid of change and so scared to spend money on innovative public infrastructure. If you never build new airports, light rail etc, it eventually catches up to you and KC is kind of in that situation now.
KC Council committee green lights planning for new KCI terminal - KansasCity.com

Here's the latest news that things are moving forward. But it it goes to a vote, I bet KC will vote it down and stick with poorly-functioning, outdated design they have. That's just KC... afraid of change and progression People in KC just don't seem to want to walk anywhere. Maybe if they offered free ribs along the route through a new terminal, they'd go for it lol!
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,509,046 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Excellent first post and I want to thank you for taking the time. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

KCI was a unique and refreshing design, making it uniquely convenient among large city airports. It wasn't designed to be operated in a police state, nor should any American airport be. The TSA security that is most often cited as the necessity for a very expensive rebuild of the terminal is the problem - not KCI's design. Unfortunately, way too few do any reflection on how it is that just a few short decades ago it was perfectly reasonable to treat people with respect and the presumption of innocence in this country. Moving toward more and more draconian security at airports and other public facilities was the wrong approach from day one.

For years this forum has been polluted with negativity toward positive and refreshing posts like yours, and we already see that nothing has changed. My advice is to just ignore it and know that there are plenty of us who share your sensible perspective.
So you'd rather do away with security and just hope there isn't a terrorist or nut with a gun on the plane?

Unless you have a time machine, you're just dreaming. KCI doesn't function well, and the city will suffer for it. You'll never have a hub or international flights without a new terminal.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,509,283 times
Reputation: 5415
denverian,

go to any KC press website right now. Kansascity.com had an article yesterday.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/04/05...en-lights.html

Read the comments. Boggles the mind. To this day, I'm not sure how the city was able to push the Sprint Center and P&L district through because most area residents were the same way with Kemper and thought downtown was fine or were fine with letting it rot. If KC didn't have the hated pro development Mayer Barnes in office for a few years, the city would still have one of the worst and most embarrassing downtowns in the country today.

The city will have to find a way to do this without a city wide vote or it will never happen. Just like light rail, downtown ballparks etc.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,509,283 times
Reputation: 5415
denverian,

go to any KC press website right now. Kansascity.com had an article yesterday.

A new KCI is closer to takeoff - KansasCity.com

Read the comments. Boggles the mind. To this day, I'm not sure how the city was able to push the Sprint Center and P&L district through because most area residents were the same way with Kemper (loved it even though it was slowly not being used anymore) and thought downtown was fine or were fine with letting it rot. If KC didn't have the hated pro development Mayer Barnes in office for a few years, the city would still have one of the worst and most embarrassing downtowns in the country today.

The city will have to find a way to do this without a city wide vote or it will never happen. Just like light rail, downtown ballparks etc.

I do have to question one thing about KCI and I questioned this long ago. Why the hell have they spent so much on KCI in the past decade if they plan to go a totally different route? They built a huge brand new rental car facility and I'm hearing the new garage will have the rental car companies in it. The huge economy parking lots too. THey are going to close those and build a new surface lost behind the garage. Not to mention the 300 million spent to "remodel" the three terminals and if you ask anybody from out of town, they will tell you the place still looks unchanged from the 70's.

Just like Kemper (spent 30 million to renovate when that should have gone to a new arena) and Kauffman Stadium spent almost 300 million to renovate when a new downtown park could have cost the same and actually benefited the city (KC will have a new stadium crisis within ten years, long before the stadium debt is paid off).

Now the city is spending 100 million on a tiny, slow, low capacity street car line when they could have built a 5 mile long true light rail spine starter line that could actually be expanded to the rest of the metro for 250 million in 1995 and that was back when the feds would have paid for more than half of it. Who is going to ride a street car for more than a few blocks and not be totally annoyed? Streetcars are fine for connecting neighborhoods. KC is trying to make it the core spine of a larger system (simply because they can't fund larger LRT system) and that will ultimately fail.

But public opposition to major projects like this always makes the residents learn the hard way.

With the 400 plus million spent on KCI recently to put lipstick on a pig, the city should have used it to build a modern terminal and maybe today KCI would be where Southwest is adding flights like crazy instead of DEN and STL.

Last edited by kcmo; 04-05-2013 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,509,046 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
denverian,

go to any KC press website right now. Kansascity.com had an article yesterday.

A new KCI is closer to takeoff - KansasCity.com

Read the comments. Boggles the mind. To this day, I'm not sure how the city was able to push the Sprint Center and P&L district through because most area residents were the same way with Kemper (loved it even though it was slowly not being used anymore) and thought downtown was fine or were fine with letting it rot. If KC didn't have the hated pro development Mayer Barnes in office for a few years, the city would still have one of the worst and most embarrassing downtowns in the country today.

The city will have to find a way to do this without a city wide vote or it will never happen. Just like light rail, downtown ballparks etc.

I do have to question one thing about KCI and I questioned this long ago. Why the hell have they spent so much on KCI in the past decade if they plan to go a totally different route? They built a huge brand new rental car facility and I'm hearing the new garage will have the rental car companies in it. The huge economy parking lots too. THey are going to close those and build a new surface lost behind the garage. Not to mention the 300 million spent to "remodel" the three terminals and if you ask anybody from out of town, they will tell you the place still looks unchanged from the 70's.

Just like Kemper (spent 30 million to renovate when that should have gone to a new arena) and Kauffman Stadium spent almost 300 million to renovate when a new downtown park could have cost the same and actually benefited the city (KC will have a new stadium crisis within ten years, long before the stadium debt is paid off).

Now the city is spending 100 million on a tiny, slow, low capacity street car line when they could have built a 5 mile long true light rail spine starter line that could actually be expanded to the rest of the metro for 250 million in 1995 and that was back when the feds would have paid for more than half of it. Who is going to ride a street car for more than a few blocks and not be totally annoyed? Streetcars are fine for connecting neighborhoods. KC is trying to make it the core spine of a larger system (simply because they can't fund larger LRT system) and that will ultimately fail.

But public opposition to major projects like this always makes the residents learn the hard way.

With the 400 plus million spent on KCI recently to put lipstick on a pig, the city should have used it to build a modern terminal and maybe today KCI would be where Southwest is adding flights like crazy instead of DEN and STL.
I've always been one for progression and positive development. Probably part of why I left KC. It amazes me how little changes over the years. To people in KC, "progress" is new strip malls on 300th St. in JoCo and the latest TGIFridays to be built
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:54 PM
 
12,608 posts, read 14,621,137 times
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Wasn't KCI renovated in 2004 to to the tune of millions of dollars? And now they want to spent more to build a new terminal?

I was listening to a Kansas City talk show yesterday and people were calling in and saying they like KCI the way it is, INCLUDING business traveler. One o fthe including one who said he flies extensively for business, both nationally and internationally, and that KCI is exactly what it needs to be, a regional airport, and that people aren't typically going to be making international flights from Kansas City anyway. He said that people are always commenting on how much they like KCI because it's easy to get in and out of.

At the kansascity.com site, here is a comment by "aviationguy":


I don't live in KC, so I can't speak to the local interests. However, as someone who's been in the aviation industry for a long time, I can GUARANTEE YOU that NO AIRLINE is going to add flights just because you build a new terminal. Pittsburgh has one of the most modern and convenient terminals in the U.S. but has had minimal success attracting new service. Ontario, CA has an extremely efficient and modern terminal, but is losing traffic with no end in sight.
The first time I flew through KC was shortly after the existing building opened and I was quite impressed. Yes the aviation industry has changed dramatically and security requirements impose additional requirements on terminal facilities, but as noted by "flyingmember" $1.2 billion is a lot more than what it would cost to make security improvements to the existing facility.
Also, one of the reasons so many airports are now focusing on beefing up their concessions is due to the fact passengers are "stuck" in the terminal for so long, especially with the heightened security requirements. A new, efficient terminal similar to the present one would not generate the retail activity that could support a significantly larger number of concessions. Airports count on those "stuck" passengers wandering into concessionaires in order to generate revenues. It's simple economics. If I can drive to the airport and get through security in say 20 minutes, I don't need to get there 2 hours before my flight. I've been "stuck" in airports for hours and in almost 40 years of flying, only once bought anything of value at an airport - a watch at Pittsburgh Int'l. I despise having to spend time in the terminal, which is also why I seldom fly anymore. It's way too much of a hassle - and I've made my living in this industry.
So, if local leaders want to be honest and say they want to build a new terminal because the old one is "out of date" in their minds, which is probably the primary reason for wanting to build a new facility, then be honest and say that. Don't use some lame excuse that it's going to bring increased air service to the community.

Last edited by luzianne; 04-05-2013 at 09:03 PM..
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:47 PM
 
196 posts, read 291,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Maybe if they offered free ribs along the route through a new terminal, they'd go for it lol!
Stereotyping much?
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,509,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
So, if local leaders want to be honest and say they want to build a new terminal because the old one is "out of date" in their minds, which is probably the primary reason for wanting to build a new facility, then be honest and say that. Don't use some lame excuse that it's going to bring increased air service to the community.
I don't think anybody is saying that a new terminal will bring all kinds of new flights to KCI, but it would probably help some. Right now, KC is not keeping the flights it has and will never even have a chance to grow and show what KC could support because even though KCI has way too many gates, it’s just not designed for today’s security or consolidated airlines.

I'm really confused now by how they are funding this. I always thought this was going to be primarily funded by the FAA's airport improvement fund.

They are acting like they will get little new fed money. And I still have not seen details of what they plan to do with some of the nearly brand new infrastructure they have built like the economy parking and consolidated rental car facility (which along with Sprint Center already makes KC's rental car tax too high) and I'm sure they have many years left to pay off those bonds.

It just doesn’t make sense to tear all that stuff down, especially when the new terminal will not be any closer to the city etc.

I really think KCI needs a new terminal. I think it’s necessary for the future of KC. But if they don’t do this right, it could backfire big time and just price the airlines and customers out of KC and then KC will have another half ass project that will still need to be fixed in another decade.

I’m starting to think that if KC can’t do this right and build a new terminal from the ground up down closer to the Zona Rosa exit off 29 like they originally planned and can’t get any fed money to do it then may as well ride it out a while longer till they can figure out a way to do it right.

Close terminal A and connect B and C with a walkway and try to come up with a solid plan that is closer to the city, hotels and easier to hook up to transit that is not too dependent on local traveler taxes.

KCI still sucks though. It's not only one of the worst airports IMO, it's becoming one of the more expensive. I still think KC residents would like an airport like BWI or Indy if they had such an airport. KCI's short walks are way overrated.
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