Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with this. My point is that the actual metro area is not southern. Lexington is part of the KC MSA I think, but nobody thinks of Lexington as a suburb of KC. I lived in the Blue Springs area for 5-6 years and Lexignton never came up, ever. I have been there exactly once in my entire life and that was to take photos of the civil war attractions there. Blue Springs, Lee's Summit, Grain Valley, eastern Independence, even Oak Grove are suburbs, some are pretty blue collar, but not really southern at all. You do get more redneck culture as you get away from the built up areas east of Blue Springs. But that's no different that Kearney or Gardner or Bonner Springs. KC is surrounded by redneck country just like almost every major metro in the country, including out here along the east coast. Rural USA is redneck no matter where you are.
IMO, the most southern area of the actual metro KC area is northern KCK. It just has this urban/rural twist with some ozarks mixed in. I can't explain it, but It's on of the weirdest cities in the county that's part of a major metro.
Now southern MO has some actual hillbilly southern culture southeast of Springfield. While Kansas has plenty of rednecks, I have not seen any hillbilly stuff there even way out the most rural areas. I have been all over rural Kansas in places most people in KC have never been. It's kind of a cool state as it has its own unique feel and some very unexpected topography once you get away from the interstates. I couldn't live there or in any other rural area, but I have enjoyed my time out there interacting with "real" Kansans.
I should say by southern influence, I don't mean it's "southern" but a transition zone which starts south of St. Louis gradually for example, very very gradually when you get into Franklin and Jefferson County for example except for far eastern MO along the MS river is totally Midwestern in St. Gen and Perry counties there is no transition zone in them then when you hit Jackson in Cape Girardeau county it becomes southern pretty quickly with little transition zone unlike the rest of Missouri.
I'm sure the transition zone is like that in Western Missouri too, gradual south of KC. Amazing what short distances can do. Like St. Francois county is firmly in the transition zone, but nearby St. Genevieve county is very Midwestern. Both have totally different feels to them. Ozarks also more heavily influence St. Francois county too compared to St. gen for example.
While the transition zone starts south of KC, the actual south line begins just south of Joplin, more south than the rest of Missouri as that area gets influences from southern Kansas and northeastern OK. Most people think northwest Arkansas isn't totally southern as well due to nearby Kansas. However I would consider it southern if I could only choose between Midwest and South. Same with Springfield MO.
St. Louis is actually closer to the south line than KC. It's only about 75 miles away due south in central Madison county around Cherokee Pass area it becomes pretty southern around there.
I think KC is unique in that it draws it's influence from more than one region.
The city has a friendly charm that is almost southern.
It's food (BBQ) and music (Jazz/Blues) influences surely draw from the south.
It has the industrial husky built environment and grit of the midwest rust belt.
It has a young, free spirit, youthful vibe that looks west.
I wouldn't call KC a western city, nor a southern city.
It is certainly midwestern, but has it's own unique feel very different from the rest of the midwest.
I think KC is unique in that it draws it's influence from more than one region.
The city has a friendly charm that is almost southern.
It's food (BBQ) and music (Jazz/Blues) influences surely draw from the south.
It has the industrial husky built environment and grit of the midwest rust belt.
It has a young, free spirit, youthful vibe that looks west.
I wouldn't call KC a western city, nor a southern city.
It is certainly midwestern, but has it's own unique feel very different from the rest of the midwest.
I agree with most of those, except the Jazz part.
KC became a jazz haven, not because of any kind of ties to the South, but because of Tom Pendergast's political machine. He turned the city into a freewheeling probition-era "anti-Depressant" where musicians could actually make money. This drew jazz cats from all over the country. The Kansas City style of jazz is most similar to what was being played in Chicago and New York at the time, and did not have any particular kinship to New Orleans Dixieland, or Mississippi Blues. (Although I'll grant that all Jazz owes its existence to these two styles.)
KC became a jazz haven, not because of any kind of ties to the South, but because of Tom Pendergast's political machine. He turned the city into a freewheeling probition-era "anti-Depressant" where musicians could actually make money. This drew jazz cats from all over the country. The Kansas City style of jazz is most similar to what was being played in Chicago and New York at the time, and did not have any particular kinship to New Orleans Dixieland, or Mississippi Blues. (Although I'll grant that all Jazz owes its existence to these two styles.)
Not to sound stupid but wouldn't Jazz making its way to Kansas City be due to Southern migrants taking it there?
Not to sound stupid but wouldn't Jazz making its way to Kansas City be due to Southern migrants taking it there?
Exactly. And anyone that has studied KC jazz history knows this.
We are all aware of "how" KC became a jazz mecca under Pendergast's economic environment.
But Pendergast has nothing to do with the musical development.
Jazz was a NOLA invention and the sound and influence moved north as southern blacks emigrated north.
The Blues also came from the south and fused with jazz in KC to form our authentic, unique style.
Southern blacks brought their food, music, religious culture/expression and other aspects from the south with them.
NY and Chicago did NOT influence KC jazz - the exact opposite - KC influenced Chicago and NY.
KC developed several concepts that changed jazz and modernized it from it's NOLA roots.
- The signature swing drumming accents used in modern jazz today were developed in KC.
- The tuba was replaced with the bass violin and the "walking bass" concept was developed.
- Blues-based horn "riffs" were improvised into songs, replacing the cacophony of traditional Dixieland.
- The saxophone replaced the trumpet and clarinet as the leading horn.
Exactly. And anyone that has studied KC jazz history knows this.
We are all aware of "how" KC became a jazz mecca under Pendergast's economic environment.
But Pendergast has nothing to do with the musical development.
Jazz was a NOLA invention and the sound and influence moved north as southern blacks emigrated north.
The Blues also came from the south and fused with jazz in KC to form our authentic, unique style.
Southern blacks brought their food, music, religious culture/expression and other aspects from the south with them.
NY and Chicago did NOT influence KC jazz - the exact opposite - KC influenced Chicago and NY.
KC developed several concepts that changed jazz and modernized it from it's NOLA roots.
- The signature swing drumming accents used in modern jazz today were developed in KC.
- The tuba was replaced with the bass violin and the "walking bass" concept was developed.
- Blues-based horn "riffs" were improvised into songs, replacing the cacophony of traditional Dixieland.
- The saxophone replaced the trumpet and clarinet as the leading horn.
It's like how people think Blues is a Chicago thing. Just because Chicago made it big by making it electric doesn't mean it's a Chicago thing. It's from Mississippi and if someone puts on some early Delta Blues like Son House they can hear how much Blues is truly a Southern genre. There was no way Blues could have become so popular there unless there a big influx of Dixie people bringing it with. Not like Chicagoans one day decided to start caring about what people in the Delta were bumping.
In the same vain I doubt KC people were like "hey let's just play jazz for no reason!!"
Not to sound stupid but wouldn't Jazz making its way to Kansas City be due to Southern migrants taking it there?
Yes and no. KC's jazz musicians did not necessarily come directly from the south.
In one sense, yes, ALL jazz originates in the south. But Kansas City's jazz heritage is not necessarily a sign of southern cultural influence. Geographically speaking, that influence swam directly up the Mississippi River, resulting in Memphis Blues, St. Louis Blues and Chicago Blues. But Kansas City developed a more unique style that mixed the regional voices of all those who converged there. And I agree, what many people think of as Chicago Jazz and New York Jazz in the 1940s started in Kansas City in the 30s.
Yes and no. KC's jazz musicians did not necessarily come directly from the south.
In one sense, yes, ALL jazz originates in the south. But Kansas City's jazz heritage is not necessarily a sign of southern cultural influence. Geographically speaking, that influence swam directly up the Mississippi River, resulting in Memphis Blues, St. Louis Blues and Chicago Blues. But Kansas City developed a more unique style that mixed the regional voices of all those who converged there. And I agree, what many people think of as Chicago Jazz and New York Jazz in the 1940s started in Kansas City in the 30s.
Please, please, please, do not use comparative or relative adjectives before "unique" - the only word we have in the English language to describe something that is like nothing else! And because something that's unique is like nothing else, you can't compare it to anything else. (My Grammarly plugin red-flagged the phrase.)
We have many words to convey specialness short of "unique" that would apply here. "Original" comes to mind easily.
Forgive my glaring Netiquette violation, but both the writer and the editor in me consider this particular bit of misuse so serious as to merit the exception, simply because "unique" is unique among English words, and that uniqueness must be preserved lest we lose the capacity to describe something that is truly (the only adjective that should be used in this position) unique when we see it. This is directed at everyone, not at a particular person.
Okay, rant over. Back to the subject:
You could say the same thing about Kansas City barbecue.
The people who turned it into a phenomenon migrated here from the South, but what they found when they got here was ground that had already been plowed thanks to a civic culture in which cookouts featuring copious quantities of grilled meats had already been firmly established. (The word "barbecue" is also used to describe a party or gathering where meat cooked over an open flame or hot coals is the featured dish. Thus it is possible to have a barbecue at which no barbecue is served. )
The two strains morphed into something distinctive that put Kansas City on the culinary map once everyone figured out that what we had here was, um, unique.
Yes and no. KC's jazz musicians did not necessarily come directly from the south.
In one sense, yes, ALL jazz originates in the south. But Kansas City's jazz heritage is not necessarily a sign of southern cultural influence. Geographically speaking, that influence swam directly up the Mississippi River, resulting in Memphis Blues, St. Louis Blues and Chicago Blues. But Kansas City developed a more unique style that mixed the regional voices of all those who converged there. And I agree, what many people think of as Chicago Jazz and New York Jazz in the 1940s started in Kansas City in the 30s.
I never directly said that all of KC's musicians "came from the south."
While most or all of them did come from the south I stated that the jazz influence is from the south.
Then you even agreed that the influence is from the south!
(what/why are you even trying to argue?)
RE: the Blues, most black southerners used normal modes of transportation northward through towns and cities, borrowing from negro spirituals, religious pentecostal shouts, hymns and even hints of bluegrass and country music. The "Blues" kept developing, as all music does through major urban areas like Memphis, Saint Louis, Kansas City and eventually Chicago and Detroit. These cities attracted musicians that could find work playing and singing. In Kansas City the blues particularly influenced the jazz that developed there. Sorry if I'm boring everyone. As a jazz lover I'm just trying to show how KC's jazz sound came from the south.
You could say the same thing about Kansas City barbecue.
The people who turned it into a phenomenon migrated here from the South, but what they found when they got here was ground that had already been plowed thanks to a civic culture in which cookouts featuring copious quantities of grilled meats had already been firmly established. (The word "barbecue" is also used to describe a party or gathering where meat cooked over an open flame or hot coals is the featured dish. Thus it is possible to have a barbecue at which no barbecue is served. )
SOLID!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
