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Interesting point Circa...but I believe the changes are accelerating as I have seen them for myself....just in the past year alone the changes are dramatic...and more dramatic changes are coming in the next 2 years. So although the Bronx will not be ready for primetime in 6 months...I think the changes in NYC (demographic changes, cost of living, etc) in the next 3-5 years will take the borough to the next level and make it far more appealing and livable place than it has been in the last 35 years.
The Bronx will be the INCLUSIONARY borough...where there is room for everyone..rich and poor...and especially the middle....whereas the rest of the city works hard at being EXLCUSIONARY. The value of the inclusionary mentaility, affordability, and proximity to the city, are what will set it apart and in fact make it a choice destination for manhattan transplants, kids right out of school, those with large families, the working/middle class, and those just beginning their lives and looking to "make it" in NYC. There is room for everyone here!
more nonsense, other than the co-ops, and their basis for exclusion are mostly financial, there is no place that is exclusionary, if you got the bucks you can live anywhere you please and few people with big bucks will be moving to the bronx
APVguy....by exclusion I mean pricing..i.e. where people can afford to live. Buying a home in most of Manhattan is now exlcusionary because it is unaffordable to the vast majority. The Bronx, however, will likely always be affordable to the working/middle class...so there will always be room for kids right of school, families, working/middle class, the wealthy and the poor.....that's what makes the borough INCLUSIONARY and much of the rest of the city EXCLUSIONARY...it is based on money and affordability....reread my post..it was quite clear.
APVguy....by exclusion I mean pricing..i.e. where people can afford to live. Buying a home in most of Manhattan is now exlcusionary because it is unaffordable to the vast majority. The Bronx, however, will likely always be affordable to the working/middle class...so there will always be room for kids right of school, families, working/middle class, the wealthy and the poor.....that's what makes the borough INCLUSIONARY and much of the rest of the city EXCLUSIONARY...it is based on money and affordability....reread my post..it was quite clear.
you are forgetting that the suburbs do offer a very viable alternative to expensive Manhattan.
many people will forsake the burden of the urban issues associated with the Bronx and trade commuting time for affordability and quality of life.
Only die hard urbanistas would consider the Bronx as an alternative to unaffordable Manhattan, the hardscrabble Bronx cannot compete with the greenery, safety and better schools that many suburbs can offer to young families. keep promoting the bronx maybe someone will get sucked in
This is where we will disagree. The suburbs are no doubt alive and well for those seeking that lifestyle..however those that choose to live in an urban environment had given up on the Bronx a long time ago. But that is changing..as the urban lifestyle is now attractive, feasible, and a reasonable alternative to long/expensive commutes from the suburbs...and now the Bronx is becoming more attractive to those seeking the urban lifestyle.
I believe, and the trends prove, that the trends toward city living is growing, and as the Bronx continues to improve and make dramatic changes going forward, the notion that only die hard urbanistas will consider the Bronx as an alternative to unaffordable will quickly be replaced with "those looking to remain in the city, live affordably, and enjoy an easy/cheap commute to Manhattan now must choose the Bronx."
That time is coming shortly...and the Bronx will host a wider group of people...and be a far more INCLUSIONARY borough that caters to the working/middle classes of all races and nationalities. I look forward to it!
We spilled over to the Bronx from Manhattan. We could have stayed, but would have had to sacrifice space. One of the things the Bronx has going against it is the widespread association of the name Bronx with urban blight. I don’t think that those who are very status-conscious would consider the Bronx, except Riverdale. I find it somewhat obnoxious that Riverdale has a separate section in the NY Times real estate classifieds – a large heading name, as if it was another borough. (Sometimes City Island does too). Perceptions about the Bronx can change, but change takes time. I feel that the Bronx will continue to improve and get better. In the four years I’ve been here, I’ve seen a lot of positive improvements-some subtle, some not. Hopefully this will continue.
have you ever heard of the suburbs? many people will forsake the burden of the urban issues associated with the bronx and trade commuting time for affordability and quality of life. Only die hard urbanistas will consider the bronx as an alternative to unaffordable Manhattan
Well, consider me a diehard urbanista.
There are a lot more diehard urbanistas than many people think. Many people that I know in the Bronx are transplants from another spot in the city, who dared to pursue homeownership in the Borough. And I'll also dare say that while the 'urban issues' exist, it's not as overblown as the media, the public and some people on this board put it!
And I've always said, everything has a tradeoff. Those 2-hr commutes from the Poconos are a beatdown! And while Jersey, Westchester, Rockland and LI have great quality of life townships, be prepared for those astronomical property taxes. And add to that the commuter fees and auto expenses.
Seems like we got two similar Bronx threads running parallel to each other. Well, we have talked about why the Bronx declined, so let's keep it there. I'll, once again, go back to the highway issue, and bring up another urban example.
I went to Paris a couple of years ago. The thing that stood out was the fact that the highway system was along the outskirts, and, to my knowledge, not one highway cut through the city. Add to that, I took a view from the Eiffel, and saw all the modern office buildings off on the western end of the city (way off on the end of the Right Bank).
There was a French architect named LeCrovorsier (he designed the UN). He was the one who advocated that modern office buildings be built in the center of the city and that expressways go through the cities, so that people would have easier auto access to work. LeCrovorsier was a heavy influence on Robert Moses, who took many of his ideas and put it to work, in works like the Cross Bronx. Remember, Moses wanted three highways to cut through Manhattan!
My question.......What would Paris look like, if the French listened to LeCrovorsier? And what would the Bronx look like, if Robert Moses didn't get his way?
Agreed...I think the wear and tear on your sanity/body of commuting, the never seeing your kids except to tuck them into bed, and the astronomical/ever increasing commmuting costs and taxes in these suburbs far outweigh the advantages...which is why the city is becoming so darn popular. Who the heck wants to heat/cool, maintain, clean, and landscape large homes out there anymore....no thanks...and as these costs continue to skyrocket...the Bronx will be swarmed and forced to change for the better!
I sure as heck don't envy any of these people..of course there is a tradeoff...I don't have a large expanse of grass to mow, and I don't have neighbors that look, act, and think just like me, and I don't attempt to keep up with neighbors, and I don't have the priviledge of driving my SUV 3 miles to get a quart of milk....
This is where we will disagree. The suburbs are no doubt alive and well for those seeking that lifestyle..however those that choose to live in an urban environment had given up on the Bronx a long time ago. But that is changing..as the urban lifestyle is now attractive, feasible, and a reasonable alternative to long/expensive commutes from the suburbs...and now the Bronx is becoming more attractive to those seeking the urban lifestyle.
I believe, and the trends prove, that the trends toward city living is growing, and as the Bronx continues to improve and make dramatic changes going forward, the notion that only die hard urbanistas will consider the Bronx as an alternative to unaffordable will quickly be replaced with "those looking to remain in the city, live affordably, and enjoy an easy/cheap commute to Manhattan now must choose the Bronx."
That time is coming shortly...and the Bronx will host a wider group of people...and be a far more INCLUSIONARY borough that caters to the working/middle classes of all races and nationalities. I look forward to it!
If we were a socialist society then your Bronx Dreams of having desirable affordable living for the working to middle class may come true. But since we are a capitalistic/democratic society then the almighty dollar will dictate the future. And not until big money comes in to the Bronx that attracts other big money, the status will remain the same. That won’t happen until the stigma of the Bronx’s reputation is long gone and probably not until Harlem and upper Manhattan is refined. I have seen some of the brand new affordable housing they put up in the BX and they have the ghetto look and feel. It is moving in the right direction but moving like a herd of turtles and I don’t think I’ll see the glory days of the Bronx in my lifetime (and I have a good 40-50 years to go). I guess it’s a matter of personnel perspective that defines the habitability of the Bronx.
Seems like we got two similar Bronx threads running parallel to each other. Well, we have talked about why the Bronx declined, so let's keep it there. I'll, once again, go back to the highway issue, and bring up another urban example.
I went to Paris a couple of years ago. The thing that stood out was the fact that the highway system was along the outskirts, and, to my knowledge, not one highway cut through the city. Add to that, I took a view from the Eiffel, and saw all the modern office buildings off on the western end of the city (way off on the end of the Right Bank).
There was a French architect named LeCrovorsier (he designed the UN). He was the one who advocated that modern office buildings be built in the center of the city and that expressways go through the cities, so that people would have easier auto access to work. LeCrovorsier was a heavy influence on Robert Moses, who took many of his ideas and put it to work, in works like the Cross Bronx. Remember, Moses wanted three highways to cut through Manhattan!
My question.......What would Paris look like, if the French listened to LeCrovorsier? And what would the Bronx look like, if Robert Moses didn't get his way?
Central paris is mostly an urban museum, paris is much smaller than even the Bronx, the highways ring paris as do most of the commerce and most of the residential areas, there are few run down parts in paris but most of the poverty is found outside the city proper. you are comparing apples and oranges
Last edited by apvbguy; 12-05-2007 at 10:54 AM..
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