Denver vs. Phoenix (Mesa, Glendale, Scottsdale: attorney, estate, gated)

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by funyon

I have heard both points on the summer evenings in Phoenix -- whether or not you can be active. Hopefully, you can shed some light on this. Once the sun drops, is it still too hot to take dogs for walks, sit outside, etc.? I've been told by others that in the summer that's when everybody does their thing outside. However, I have also heard that because of all the concrete and asphalt, there really is no good time to be outside in the summer. The main reason I want out of Denver area is I'm tired of being in for 5-6 months of the year -- I really hate the cold. I realize that I will not want to be out in the middle part of the day, but was hoping that in the mornings and evenings, one could step out and go for a walk. By the way, how early do you have to get out before it's too hot in the summer?

I used to work 4 AM shifts at a job in Phoenix. Many a summer morning it was 90 or more degrees at 4 in the morning.

That said, at dawn and dusk there's usually a good chance for a decent breeze if you're near the desert, but don't count on it if you're in the concrete jungle that is Phoenix. You asked, "Once the sun drops, is it still too hot to take dogs for walks, sit outside, etc.?" and my answer is "Yes, but you'll do it anyway." To be honest, after a few years, I kind of enjoyed the absurdity of the summer climate (you can several weeks in the summer without the temperature in the city ever getting below 80.) The city isn't very cultural, so sometimes the environment itself is as much of a "local" feeling as you can get.

One more note: Most people that complain about the heat in Phoenix spend a lot of time in two places. 1) In air conditioning and 2) In cars (it's a car town, 100%). If you acclimate a little, though, and don't spend too much time out in the direct sun, it isn't as bad as most people claim. Especially if you've got a park (or some other asphalt/concrete free area) nearby.

I'm probably making it to sound more dire than it really is...It can get quite hot for a long time, but if heat bothers you less than cold then you'll spend some time in it anyway and probably learn to enjoy the desert (the Sonoran is probably the most beautiful and "wettest" desert in the world.) Also, Tucson is smaller and slightly higher in elevation (which makes it marginally cooler overall), and so might make a decent alternative.

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Let's put it this way: imagine the hottest summer days in Denver in July or August, when the temperatures get into the upper 90s, and assume no afternoon thunderstorms (which can be annoying but signficantly lower the temperatures, making the evenings delightful once the storm passes through), so it's a dry heat lasting all day. Hot during the day, but perfectly comfortable at night. If we take this last year as an example, that's the kind of weather Phoenix had in October and April and some of May. How comfortable are you in Denver in July and August? If that's too hot for you, stop reading. If you enjoy those months, keep reading on. Now: Do you remember that day several years ago (July 20, 2005) when the thermometer in Denver reached its all time record high-- 105 degrees? Imagine heat that hot, every single day, day after day after day, with no breaks. That's what June and September were like in Phoenix last year-- hotter than anything Denver regularly experiences at any time of the year. Is that hot enough for you? If so, stop reading. If not, keep on: Imagine heat hotter than even the hottest day on record in Denver going on for 2 months straight: that's July and August in Phoenix for you.

Now, for the nice months of the year: November in Phoenix is equivalent to September in Denver. December, January, and February in Phoenix on average are equivalent to late September/early October or April in Denver (either a dry or rainy April day-- not a late spring snowstorm). Some of the coldest days Phoenix gets in Dec, Jan, and Feb are about on par with the warmest days Denver might have in November, February or March. An average March day in Phoenix is equivalent to early May in Denver (the perfect time of the year for both cities). And of course, the weather Denver gets on average in December, January, and February does not exist in Phoenix's climate. And obviously, the snowstorms Denver gets does not exist in Phoenix's climate either. Winter rains, like today for example, are very common though. The monsoon season in Phoenix doesn't really have a parallel to Denver either-- closest thing would be the afternoon thunderstorms in early summer, but without the cooling effect.

I have to agree. It may be a dry heat (as I know Denver is, too), but six consecutive cloudless weeks at 108 or higher is a lot like living in a convection oven. The sweat evaporates so fast, it's really difficult to actually get cool, and you need to drink a lot of water. That said, it's kind of fun to brag about

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by Gretchen B

Funyon - I would definitely agree with you that Denver's winters are from about mid-November thru mid-April. At least they were when we lived there. I remember leaving Denver on May 1st in a blizzard, and there was still ice on the streets that hadn't melted off from the first big snowstorm the end of November! That was our first winter there - fortunately the next winters weren't as bad.

Here in Prescott the temps are warmer, so the snow generally melts off the streets within the day (most times it melts as it hits the pavement). Today we had some snow that stuck around until about noon. This has been the first snow (out of about 3 total this year) that actually stayed around for a while. Winters here usually aren't windy, although we did have some really awful wind as this storm came in yesterday. Our windy months are generally May and June (also our 2 really dry months). When I first moved here from Colorado/Nebraska I don't think I noticed the wind but a handful of days. But it's been windier than usual the past two years - I think because of the drought. I've noticed that when it's a wetter year that we don't have much wind. Except for the month or two before monsoon season, I would say the wind is much less usually than the Front Range.

As for the gnats, flies, mosquitos - I think we're pretty spoiled here. They were enough of a problem (along with the wind) back in Denver that we really didn't eat outside much. Here we grill and eat out on our patios all the time. It's not like we never see a gnat or mosquito, but it's really pretty rare (unless you've got some standing water). I don't know if the "misters" down in Phoenix attract them or not. Up here in Prescott we're cool enough that we don't run misters to cool the air.

Of course, Prescott is much smaller than Denver. Think of it as kind of a budding Fort Collins from about 15 years ago. I think our "tri-city" population is about 85,000. We're about 90 minutes from Phoenix. So if we want warmer weather or mucho shopping we can always head there for the day. We're also about 90 minutes away from skiing in Flagstaff (and cooler temps in the summer), and an hour away from Sedona. The big drawback to living here in Prescott is the lack of jobs. Part of that is simply because of the size of the community vs Phoenix. There are some good jobs up here, but they're kind of few and far between. Health care is big up here, and there's some professional & tech jobs, plus lots of lower paying service/retail jobs. My family hasn't had much problem finding good jobs, but I know there's others that have struggled to find something.

Beware the steadily sprawling Prescott Valley, though! It's adding Jobs, but also sprawl...unless you like that sort of thing.

[ccand3]

[quote=vegaspilgrim;2718824]Even though I disagree with about 80% of what you're saying, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you on most of what you're saying here, including the weather-- a pointless debate. But on this point, your perceptions are clouded by stereotypes and have absolutely nothing to do with the pace of life and culture in either the west coast (aka, California), Phoenix, or Denver. #1 The popular image of the "west coast" (aka, California) as a "laid back" place, based on popular culture references to the "surfer lifestyle" is nothing more than a myth. Californians are some of the most over-worked, over-stressed, sleep-deprived people in the country. Traffic congestion, crime and aggressive drivers aren't exactly signs of a "laid back" lifestyle. #2 Phoenix is NOT the "west coast," it never was and it never will be.


Being a native Arizonian, I would hardly state that Arizona is laidback or liberal, but rather conservative and uptight! Vegaspilgim, I agree, I don't know what part of Arizona, would lead people to think we are "laidback"-maybe up north, Flagstaff? But that reminds me more of Seattle. We are moving to Denver, and I for one have heard people are friendlier, more liberal and Denver has greater diversity...I am looking forward to it (especially the lack of summer heat)...

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by ccand3

Being a native Arizonian, I would hardly state that Arizona is laidback or liberal, but rather conservative and uptight! Vegaspilgim, I agree, I don't know what part of Arizona, would lead people to think we are "laidback"-maybe up north, Flagstaff? But that reminds me more of Seattle. We are moving to Denver, and I for one have heard people are friendlier, more liberal and Denver has greater diversity...I am looking forward to it (especially the lack of summer heat)...

Oh man, please don't tell me you had to revive this old grouchy thread again! In response to your comment, here's what I'd say: The most liberal parts of the Denver metro area (Boulder, Capitol Hill) are far more liberal than even the most liberal parts of Phoenix (Tempe, parts of central Phoenix). The most diverse parts of the Denver metro area (Aurora and adjacent parts of east Denver, parts of West Denver, and parts of north Denver and the north metro area), which by the way, are different than the most liberal areas, are more diverse than even the most diverse parts of Phoenix (Tempe, West Mesa, East Phoenix, NW Phoenix).

But then again, large tracts of the Denver metro area (especially the SW metro area--think Columbine High School, and Douglas County) might have almost no diversity, an equivalent, of say, East Mesa or South Gilbert. Boulder and the Boulder County suburbs, despite their "liberal" reputation, are basically all white towns. Overall, Colorado politically is very similar to Arizona-- a traditionally moderate Republican state that is leaning more Democratic as time goes on. It all depends what part of town you live in. In most of Denver and Phoenix, the people are indistinguishable; if you took a random assortment of 15 Denverites and 15 Phoenicians and put them in a room, I doubt you would be able to tell who was who (unless if you lowered the temperature down to 30 degrees-- then it would become pretty obvious. ). Denver can still get very hot at times (upper 90s), but it's a hundred, thousand, million, bazillion times more comfortable in the summer than Phoenix. If you can tolerate snow, or better yet even like snow, then you've got it made. But don't set yourself up thinking that Denver is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and that the same things you hate about Phoenix aren't also found there; it ain't, and if you're expecting it to be, you're setting yourself up for disillusionment.

[YAZ]

Originally Posted by funyon

You are right--it is one thing for the other and you need to do what is best for your personal taste. I would pretty much trade all the Colorado things for the Phoenix things, with one exception -- the Avalanch.

Go Red Wings!

The Cup belongs in Detroit.

[fcorrales80]

Denver sucks! Being hispanic and gay, I have experienced both cities and the illusion that Denver is more diverse and tolerant is one propped up only because they have a slightly better downtown. However, Denver is a much more conservative city and region than the Valley of the Sun. I have never been called a *** by passerby's in Phoenix. During Phoenix's gay pride there were religious folk outside protesting, but peacefully and they are allowed their opinion, but in Denver, the gay community and other ethnic groups experience far more hate crimes and their Pride Festival has experienced associated violence. This also spills over into suburban regions where "clicks" seem to accumulate in far greater numbers than in Phoenix. I have friends here in Phoenix that are straight, gay, married, single, police, students, professionals, white, black, hispanic, asian, mixed, etc. and feel much more comfortable in Pheonix than I did in Denver...not to mention the clubs here are far better; straight clubs in Scottsdale and gay clubs/mixed clubs in Phoenix. Sorry, but from personal, factual, and statistical experience, Denver is not the friendly place people think it to be. Another case in point, Colorado passed a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage, Arizona voters (helped by the moderate and liberal populations in Phoenix, Tucson, and Flagstaff) was the first in the nation to NOT ammend the constitution to ban gay marriage. Religious groups in Arizona are fighting this with millions of dollars and with scare tactics and hateful rhetoric to try and sway voters in Arizona to change their minds and I hope their efforts fail...again.

[fcorrales80]

And who cares about the heat...if you move to Phoenix, as I did a couple of years ago, then you should know the summers are HOT! Who in their right mind does not understand this??? Also, having grown up in the Seattle area, I find Phoenix to be a great substitute for Seattle in the winter and Seattle to be a great substitute for Phoenix in the summer. However, just a 2 hour drive north and I can be in 70, 80 degree weather in Flagstaff. In Washington state, you have no equavalent for a Phoenix substitute during the long, wet, gray winters. Although Phoenix is not as liberal, diverse, and developed as Seattle, they are following the same evolution. Seattle in the 80's and early 90's had more in common with Phoenix than with its present state. Phoenix is on its way and I am glad I moved here to contribute and to see it change.

[CA_Dreaming]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Of course you guys all hate Denver-- this is the Phoenix forum! Out of any major city in the US, where do you think you're going to find the most amount of people who hate snow and worship the sun? Right here! No wonder why you guys all agree with each other! Most Phoenicians would never dream of living in a place that gets as much as one ounce of snow. Of course Phoenicians are more friendly than Denverites; when the number one industry driving your city's growth is homebuilding and real estate investment, you had better be friendly to newcomers! BTW, I agree with sberdrow, Denver, at least during the winter half of the year, is indeed a very brown, drab looking place. From October to April, Phoenix is the place to be, especially if you hate snow and have no interest in winter sports. But from May until September, Denver is the preferable place to be, hands down. Both cities are acquired tastes.

What I find laughable is when many Phoenicians think they are living in paradise, in a "California" like climate, when they're not. I just got back from another trip to San Diego-- and San Diego, not Phoenix, is the benchmark of the perfect climate with the most beautiful hillsides and layout of a city I've ever seen. Perfect in the summer and winter. That's all Phoenix is and all it ever will be-- a southern California wannabe. San Diego puts both Denver and Phoenix to shame. Both San Diego and Denver blow Phoenix away when it comes to having a great downtown and walkable neighborhood business districts. Downtown Phoenix and the Central Ave corridor is such a pathetic joke I think Phoenix would actually be a better city if they just bulldozed it. Phoenix does a great job at building suburbs, and has some beatiful suburbs, both old ones and new ones, but when it comes to building urban areas Phoenix absolutely sucks. That's the conclusion I've come to after living here the last 4 years.

BTW, I stand loud and proud, GO BRONCOS!!! They might have their ups and downs (last year was a major disappointment, obviously), but if you think the Cardinals can even remotely match the Broncos... then, you just plain aren't a football fan.

Broncos? Ha Ha. Nice team. Charger fan here from Del Mar, CA moving to Anthem from Dallas in two months. Maybe you guys will be able to score at least one td against the Bolts this year. I think we outscored the Donks 65-6 for the two games last year. More of the same this year. I love the fact that I will now be able to drive to the games (or fly in an hour) so I can use all my season tickets.

We have been to Anthem and the vibe is very much like CA. Shorts, tees and flip flops most of the year. I lived in Ft. Collins for a year and Denver is NO great shakes bro.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Denver sucks! Being hispanic and gay, I have experienced both cities and the illusion that Denver is more diverse and tolerant is one propped up only because they have a slightly better downtown. However, Denver is a much more conservative city and region than the Valley of the Sun. I have never been called a *** by passerby's in Phoenix. During Phoenix's gay pride there were religious folk outside protesting, but peacefully and they are allowed their opinion, but in Denver, the gay community and other ethnic groups experience far more hate crimes and their Pride Festival has experienced associated violence. This also spills over into suburban regions where "clicks" seem to accumulate in far greater numbers than in Phoenix. I have friends here in Phoenix that are straight, gay, married, single, police, students, professionals, white, black, hispanic, asian, mixed, etc. and feel much more comfortable in Pheonix than I did in Denver...not to mention the clubs here are far better; straight clubs in Scottsdale and gay clubs/mixed clubs in Phoenix. Sorry, but from personal, factual, and statistical experience, Denver is not the friendly place people think it to be. Another case in point, Colorado passed a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage, Arizona voters (helped by the moderate and liberal populations in Phoenix, Tucson, and Flagstaff) was the first in the nation to NOT ammend the constitution to ban gay marriage. Religious groups in Arizona are fighting this with millions of dollars and with scare tactics and hateful rhetoric to try and sway voters in Arizona to change their minds and I hope their efforts fail...again.

Read this carefully, fcorrales. The poster who wrote that is also Hispanic. Looks like the same kinds of negative experiences you found in Denver have happened in Phoenix too, as well as other southwest cities (Albuquerque). Once you leave your little Central Phoenix bubble between the 7's, Phoenix can start looking like a vastly different place too.