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Thrill...right up front---sorry, but I don't hate you. As much as you probably don't want it or receive it--I care about you.
Ok, in all truth, there's probably not a lot you could tell me about my faith and my beliefs that I've not already heard. I've been called empty minded, gullible, clueless, a cool aid drinker, and a few other more descriptive and "pointed" names. You, yourself, have grouped me as being part of "a plague". Yes, I've seen open hostility. OH, indeed I have. And, I've seen the laundry list...
Yet, seriously, feel free to share your thoughts. I'll even read them. I respect your right and I respect your thinking. I truly do...it's not just words I say to that effect.
But, I probably won't get into any sort of argument. Arguments about religion are usually pointless except, often, to promote yet more hostility. I share the message that God has given me. Some will consider, some will reject..and so it goes. Let he who has ears hear.
So, that might beg the question---why would I even visit this place casually or otherwise?
Simply put...to just so as I've said. Share what I've personally experienced in the hope it might help, assist, or whatever anyone that might, possibly...be "looking" for answers to their life.
You are not my intent or my focus.
You've made up your mind and are adamant in your rejection of God or anything of God...so be it. Now, might He supernaturally do something in your life to get your attention? Perhaps, He's entirely able. But probably not. He gives us Free Will. Again, you've rejected Him and His message...that is your choice and your right to do as such. I hope...I do hope that your mind will be changed one day before you stand in Judgement before Him...which you will.
But, I can't make that happen.
I was starting to wonder that, too. I hardly ever respond to the 'God makes me feel good' posts (Miss Hepburn and the like. It just isn't an issue for me. Nor the 'best Pizz in the world' thread. I just prefer logic and evidence to ideas or beliefs that make me feel good. Others can go another way, and I am not going to argue with them.
When I get Evidence -claims (Like Mr Horton's Truth in the Bible post), I'm right in there.
Jesus told his disciples to give everything to the poor, walk away from their father on the bank of the river, leave their home behind. He didn't call EVERYONE to be a disciple. He also had ardent followers who were funding his mission, I believe Mary Magdalene was one (one of the Marys funded him, I think maybe through her family's very lucrative shipping business).
The disciples weren't telling everyone give everything you have to the poor, and follow me. They told people to love one another as He has loved you, and care for one another.
I'm not quite sure what the "how convenient for you" statement was about. Maybe how inconvenient that passage is to YOU?
...and in he said to the disciples in Mark 16:15 Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Note that he is telling the disciples to do this and yet Christians see this as an instruction to all Christians. Funny that huh?
Go make a nuisance of yourself. That applies to everyone.
Give your money to the poor. That only applies to whoever he was talking to.
He told his disciples that. Not every single person is charged with that; those who do that will have to be taken care of by others who are believers. Like missionaries. They rely on the other Christians to make their dedication possible.
He said to the woman who purchased VERY expensive perfume to bathe his feet in, and she was criticized for not donating that money to the poor instead, "there will always be the poor".
Jesus said love each other as we love ourselves, and see the face of Jesus in every human we encounter.
Mat. 25: 31-46) [When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Ah 'item 9 just clarifies 2" eh?
I see these as contradictions.
First you have a direction to give all your dosh to the poor and follow Jesus (I think that's Matthew - I'll check) yes, 19.21 - and Luke 18. 22. (not in Mark it seems, so Q material.
Then you have 'don't give it to the poor when you can blow it all on Jesus' (I think that's a Luke. No, my word..it's in Mark, Matthew and John! and Not in Luke because he shifts the anointing to Galilee and totally alters it.
Finally 'a token bit of 'good to the poor will do'. I think Matthew again. Yes, Matthew 25 40. Note also that the 'parable of the talents' In Luke 19 doe Not have that passage - so it's Matthew's own addition.
Pretty much you can pick the quote that suits and ignore the quote that doesn't.
So you can ignore the Matthew addition and probably screw Q as well. It is 'pour your money out over Jesus, and let the poor look after themselves' that is the reliable quote. The Church will love that one.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-02-2019 at 12:01 PM..
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Ah 'item 9 just clarifies 2" eh?
I see these as contradictions.
First you have a direction to give all your dosh to the poor and follow Jesus (I think that's matthew - I'll check)
Then you have 'don't give it to the poor when you can blow it all on Jesus' (I think that's a Luke.
Finally 'a token bit of good to the poor will do'. I think Matthew again.
Pretty much you can pick the quote that suits and ignore the quote that doesn't.
I certainly will agree with you that the Bible is full of apparent contradictions. Some of it may be translation error, some of it may be because Life isn't simple, and is apparently contradictory at times.
Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.
Like that. Are you going to follow someone around and say, well which one is it? Do you need a lot of hands, or do you only need a few? Pick only one saying and make it applicable in all situations?
I never said there are not consequences for one's actions nor did I say anything about God being nothing but love. I personally believe that love is the foundation from which everything that God is proceeds. Love doesn't punish, love heals and transforms. One doesn't even have to believe that "God" exists in order to experience the transformative power of love in their life.
Putting Hitler to the side for a moment because I think it's much more important to bring the question to a personal level, what about you? What are the consequences you are expecting for your "sins"? Is God going to punish you for them?
In my belief, Everyman (including you, me and Hitler) is responsible for his choices made on free will.
We have the capacity to do a lot of bad things, and we also have the capacity to do a a lot of good things.
It’s then up to each one of us as to which route one wishes to take and how he sketches his painting till his time is up; the bell rings, and the last curtain falls on his eyes.
There is going to be a judgement day.
Good jobs will yield good results and bad choices could lead one into trouble.
Those who had tried their best to live a peaceful and a morally cautious life, will be happy and satisfied on that day; they won’t have any worry on their faces - and those who thought they were powerful kings who were above the law, or they were smart and cunning to dodge the system and do injustice to others, or they were rich enough to hire lawyers and got out of it etc, will be in a state state of deep worry. There will be no place to run and no where to hide, and no smart lawyers to hire.
Only and only our actions and our efforts will speak on our behalf.
And NO, we are not born with a sin and no person shall bear the burden of anyone else.
However, one of the things that makes us human is that we WILL make mistakes. But God is merciful.
When we make a mistake/sin, there are 3 things we need to do.
1 - Honestly repent and promise God that you will try your best not to do it again.
2 - If the sin involves doing injustice to another person then you must make up to them.
3 - Do an equally good deed to balance out the sin.
Does that guarantee that you won’t face the concequences of your bad actions and sins in God’s justice? No, it does not but it gives you HOPE.
God looks at our honest efforts.
And this is why it doesn’t make sense to me if any theology provides a guaranteed spot in heaven to its followers in faith.
The true fact is, we don’t really know what’s our destiny. We can only try our best till our destiny is revealed to us. However, Christianity and Judaism does not believe in it.
I certainly will agree with you that the Bible is full of apparent contradictions. Some of it may be translation error, some of it may be because Life isn't simple, and is apparently contradictory at times.
Many hands make light work. Too many cooks spoil the broth.
Like that. Are you going to follow someone around and say, well which one is it? Do you need a lot of hands, or do you only need a few? Pick only one saying and make it applicable in all situations?
Quite right. I noticed as a schoolkid that many of these aphorisms contradicted (I particularly liked 'Fine feathers make fine birds' and 'Fine feathers do not make fine birds' (the second is actually right - the first is just about Appearances). But the Bible is not supposed to be human pronouncements, but sayings that we can follow without dobt or question to gain eternal life. Not argue about.
Mind, these are just lesser (though significant) contradictions. There are much tougher ones that these. My line has gone beyond 'Look at all these contradictions! The Bible is not the word of God!" argument. Not only because 'human error' was an easy counter. It had to go further than that. What the contradictions tell us about how the Gospels (and Acts) were written, and why. And that will tell us who wrote them.
In my belief, Everyman (including you, me and Hitler) is responsible for his choices made on free will.
We have the capacity to do a lot of bad things, and we also have the capacity to do a a lot of good things.
It’s then up to each one of us as to which route one wishes to take and how he sketches his painting till his time is up; the bell rings, and the last curtain falls on his eyes.
There is going to be a judgement day.
Good jobs will yield good results and bad choices could lead one into trouble.
Those who had tried their best to live a peaceful and a morally cautious life, will be happy and satisfied on that day; they won’t have any worry on their faces - and those who thought they were powerful kings who were above the law, or they were smart and cunning to dodge the system and do injustice to others, or they were rich enough to hire lawyers and got out of it etc, will be in a state state of deep worry. There will be no place to run and no where to hide, and no smart lawyers to hire.
Only and only our actions and our efforts will speak on our behalf.
And NO, we are not born with a sin and no person shall bear the burden of anyone else.
However, one of the things that makes us human is that we WILL make mistakes. But God is merciful.
When we make a mistake/sin, there are 3 things we need to do.
1 - Honestly repent and promise God that you will try your best not to do it again.
2 - If the sin involves doing injustice to another person then you must make up to them.
3 - Do an equally good deed to balance out the sin.
Does that guarantee that you won’t face the concequences of your bad actions and sins in God’s justice? No, it does not but it gives you HOPE.
God looks at our honest efforts.
And this is why it doesn’t make sense to me if any theology provides a guaranteed spot in heaven to its followers in faith.
The true fact is, we don’t really know what’s our destiny. We can only try our best till our destiny is revealed to us. However, Christianity and Judaism does not believe in it.
That's what a lot of believers Trust is going to be the criterion for being saved, which will mean that religious belief is immaterial, other than encouraging people to do good - I have to recognise that aspect.
But the religions teach rather than doing good will Not get you into heaven - only believing the right things will do that.
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