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Old 02-07-2009, 06:44 AM
 
124 posts, read 290,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well based on the fact that much of what he predicted has already come to pass, I think we can cut him a little slack. I thought back in 1974 that the idea that there would be peace between the U.S. China and Russia was off the wall. Yet it appears, he was right.

None of these three countries were ever in direct conflict with one another.

And Russia isn't exactly one of closest allies.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:08 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,726,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
How is anyone to disprove the "visions" of the false "prophets" when they are conveniently still in the future!

We do NOT need any further visions and prophecies--we have everything we in the holy scriptures. I personally am beyond sick and tired of the so-called prophets today who think they are so special that God speaks only to them!

Let's look at the Scriptures to see what God has to say about these matters--everything else in extra-biblical, speculative and theoretical. Mr. Wilkerson will have to give an account some day for daring to claim to speak God's words! Shame on him!

Preterist
Many of Wilkersons prophecies have already occured, (DID YOU FORGET THAT POINT?)

And you have stated, we have no need of visions and prophecies, we have everything in the Holy Scriptures?

Did you forget again, it is the Holy Scriptures that have stated that we will continue to prophesy in the last days.

Acts 2:17 AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

It will not be Wilkerson who will have to give an account, it will be you. For you have denied what God has already told us in the Scriptures. Shame on you!
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:18 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,726,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroyals View Post
None of these three countries were ever in direct conflict with one another.

And Russia isn't exactly one of closest allies.
I don't know how old you are, but America spent billions of dollars building missiles as a defense because of both Russia and China. There was a time when I was in grade school, when we had to get under our desks to prepare for a possible attack from Russia. The idea back then that we would someday have a time of peace with both Russia and China was pretty remote. Yet Wilkerson said that day would come, and he said God would allow it so the Gospel could be preached in those countries, which included Eastern Europe. Wilkersons prophecy was correct.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:33 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,726,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Believing in prophecies is like belief in magic. That is, it is the belief that there are persons who occasionally have the supernatural power of knowing what's going to happen in the future.

Why would God grant such a person such a power? Why isn't that power evident at all other times in that person's life? If not at all times, then why would that person have that power just about one particular piece of subject matter? Is God toying with that person, by giving him/her only a little slice of supernatural knowledge, and with all who listen to that person?

A person who believes in prophecies lacks a lot of critical faculties about how to assess events in the real world. There is little excuse for this lack of faculty in today's scientific age. It seems like self-imposed blindness about the scientific notions of cause and effect and of the underlying truths of history and economics. It is the willful suspension of reason.
God grants such prophecies to encourge His people. And the Bible tells us that such prophecies would occur in the last days.

Acts 2:17 In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

I would say, a person who ignores prophecies that have become fact, is truly the one that has embraced a self-imposed blindness. And that is why the Bible tells us. ( BEWARE OF SCIENCE FALSELY SO CALLED.)
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:56 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,726,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxolan View Post
What, did anybody think they would remain at war forever? If you want, I'll predict that Israel will eventually be at peace with its neighbours. It doesn't look likely now, but it has to happen eventually. No war last forever, and few last more than a few decades.
I'm doubtful of that one. What does "a large number" mean? There's been a few cases with a lot of media attention, but that's it. Specific quotes would be nice.

Gay Liberation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Can you provide the specific quote for people blaming America? All I can find is:
Which, you know, didn't happen.
Oh really. Then that's not reflected in your summary of them.
So? All his prophecies are reasonably likely.
As I said, without a time limit, it's impossible to prove the guy wrong. We can only find prophecies that did not happen yet. Of course he did state a few dates, and invariably got it wrong, but apparently it's all right because he wasn't really certain.
Specific quote for people blaming America.

WSJ.com Chinese Premier Blames Recession on U.S. Actions
HUDSON Institute Europe Blames America for world's economic problems.
TIMESONLINE Vladimir Putin blames America for world economic crisis

Dates he stated came from his personal opinion. They did not come from the vision he had.

From his book the Vision, Thousands of ministers and very devout people are indulging in secret sex sins. From his book, "set the trumpet to they mouth." (1985) God will reveal these secret sins to the world.

The INDEPENDENT Saturday 28, Feb. 2004 Church reveals 4,400 US priests were accused of child sex abuse.
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:06 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,726,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I've done that Campbell, but you manage to put your personal spin on what ever anyone says in opposition to what you believe...That is a skill most bible literalists have because they constantly have to defend the absurdities in the bible, but you have developed the skill to the point where even you believe that what you are saying is truth.

Anyone who has tried to have an argument with a religious believer about the many contradictions and errors in religious texts will find themselves in sympathy with my lecturer. Each logical step forward seems to be met with another piece of twisted logic or wilful blindness.

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My personal spin only involves the truth. The truth requires no spin. It is because that truth refutes your worldview, you are forced to believe it can only be spin. It is not twisted logic, it is basic truth.
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:07 AM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,174,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Now let me ask you this one question. (WHAT PART OF THE BOOK IS FICTION?)
Most if not all of it. There may be some nuggets of fact in there, but for the most part the bible is a fictional storybook with a few good object lessons, and a lot of violence, hatred, et cetera.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
971 posts, read 1,511,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Specific quote for people blaming America.

WSJ.com Chinese Premier Blames Recession on U.S. Actions
HUDSON Institute Europe Blames America for world's economic problems.
TIMESONLINE Vladimir Putin blames America for world economic crisis
I meant specific quotes from your prophet. I know some people are blaming America for the crisis (and not Europe - you know, like in that other prophecy).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell
Many of Wilkersons prophecies have already occured, (DID YOU FORGET THAT POINT?)
So what? It's not like he predicted seas turning to blood or something.
I repeat: if there is no way to prove a prophecy wrong, it cannot be used as proof of anything. This is basic scientific method, you know. Every theory has to be falsifyable.

Of course Wilkerson did provide a way to test his prophecies by giving a few dates, which have invariably turned out to be wrong. But apparently it was only a guess so that makes it all right.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:59 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,053,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
As I have stated, rational thought would acknowledge the truth of Wilkerson's prophecies. It is your worldview that has blinded you to their truth. I coutinually cite the prophecies of the Bible, because the prophecies can only be denied if you refused to apply rational thought.
My faith has been established because I have discovered the truth of those Biblical prophecies, and I have acknowledged recent historical discoveries that only confirms the Scriptures. It requires rational thought to agree with what has been proven as fact. And it requires non rational thought in order to continue ignoring such facts. Now let me ask you this one question. (WHAT PART OF THE BOOK IS FICTION?)
Once again, what you consider to be rational thought is the brainwashing of your religious beliefs. You "acknowledge" (very kind of you, there) and claim them to be "god" inspired yet any predictions that happen to pass unfilled were not god inspired. You can't have it both ways.

As for your biblicial prophecies, I repeat that you are reading them thousands of years after the fact from renditions that have been editted and translated countless times, but you with your omnipotent knowledge of everything decide to believe them so they must be true. Can you say arrogant egotist?

If it requires non rational thought to continue ignoring facts, you have just described yourself. Any fact that you are not comfortable with, you deny. Is that rational?

As to which part of your precious bible is fiction, start at page one and read to the end. Can you say all of it? The occasional historic reference does not make the entire book true, just semi historical fiction.

Start spinning now, come up with something to dispute this from those who do your thinking for you. Or just go back and worship your god, Wilkerson and your bible. (Isn't that three gods? They are multiplying!)
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,053,349 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Many of Wilkersons prophecies have already occured, (DID YOU FORGET THAT POINT?)

And you have stated, we have no need of visions and prophecies, we have everything in the Holy Scriptures?

Did you forget again, it is the Holy Scriptures that have stated that we will continue to prophesy in the last days.

Acts 2:17 AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

It will not be Wilkerson who will have to give an account, it will be you. For you have denied what God has already told us in the Scriptures. Shame on you!

My, my, getting really testy here. Starting to shout (upper case typing) to try and make an unmakable point. Perhaps you should just quit while you are behind.
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