Texas secede? (Houston, West, Howe: legally, inclusive, cities)

[kdogg817]

United States have to much invested and infrastructure in the state to let it secede the Union. If there was any uprsing the U.S. military will quickly solve the problem.

[Jrsgun]

Beg to differ it would not be an uprising, it would be survival just like back before the Civil War. The Southern states did not quit the Union because of slavery it was because of high taxes and tariffs just like what is going on right now. Do not under estimate the will of the people to protect our feedoms and liberty. True American's & Texans can be very strong willed when it comes to our freedoms and inalienable rights and protecting them no matter what the odds are.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by CmonFolks!

False: Texas joined the US by treaty (it was actually an act of Congress, this is not opinion. please look it up if you are not affraid of getting your pride hurt).

Not quite. The U.S Congress approved an annexation agreement negotiated and agreed upon by both parties. That is, the Republic of Texas and the United States.

False: Texas has the right to leave the Union. It has the same right as any other state - legally, legislatively, and as any "international laws" may establish without a doubt.

Yes, that is an old myth, that the Annexation gave Texas the specific right to secede. With that said though, the right of secession is intrinsic to any free people, anywhere. It didn't have to be spelled out.

[CalGal953]

Originally Posted by Backyard

Texans pay more to the Federal government in taxes than they receive back in services and have for years. It's not as bad as some states, like Vermont for example, but still we pay out more than we get back.

It is pretty bad in California, where the state has for years gotten only 75-79 cents back for every dollar it sends to Washington to give to those "welfare bums" in Louisiana, Alaska, Mississippi, South Carolina, etc. that whine like babies about socialism and how we Californians are "the real welfare bums" and how they are hardworking in "Real America" in LA/AK/MS/SC.

Louisiana – Bobby Jindal takes in $1.45 for every $1 sent to Wash.
Alaska – Sarah Palin takes $1.87 for every $1 sent to Wash.
Mississippi – Barbour takes $1.77 for every $1 sent
South Carolina – Sanford takes $1.38 for every $1 sent

If they hate "socialism" so much, then perhaps they should walk the walk and start sending more money to Washington than they receive.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by CalGal953

If they hate "socialism" so much, then perhaps they should walk the walk and start sending more money to Washington than they receive.

I have a much better idea. Let's leave Washington out of it completely and keep the money at home where it belongs (except for that needed to support the limited and specific functions spelled out in the Constitution).

[CmonFolks!]

To all the malcontents who call upon static rebellions from centuries past to determine their conduct in the present; To all those who reside in just one of all MY states and who cannot acknowledge the established choices made in history and the irrevocable destiny for future generations; To those who don't understand or maintain perspective of your country, your empire, and THE one entity which gave birth to and protects your land and your family:
The truth shall set you free.
Now, let's go through another lesson:
PREAMBLE.
"We the people of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging with
gratitude the grace and beneficence of GOD, in permitting us to
make a choice of our form of Government, do in accordance with
the provisions of the joint resolution for the annexation of Texas to the United States, approved March 1st, 1.845, ordain and establish this Constitution."
All you can do is recommend that children don't follow the same confused path as their parents. Here's more:
1. Texas entered the union by CHOICE.
2. Texas' entry into the United States constitution was enacted into LAW through a joint resolution by US CONGRESS, not by treaty. This is clear and unchallenged by any real legal body in the state of Texas as this PRECEDENT was set long ago.
3. The US appropriated the land that is now Texas as an INVESTMENT.
4. Independence was established for Texas by US citizens (and as is usually the case, independence that was fought for through VIOLENT means)
5. If you are a legal citizen of ANY state you are FIRST and FOREMOST a United States citizen, and SECOND a state citizen as is written into CONTRACT LAW by the constitution.
6. Any organized groups who charter themselves as a pro-secessionist movement on the grounds of any philosopy or ideology ALONE are considered equivalent to that of a cult or perhaps a terrorist movement by MOST in your own state.
I will go into all the Texas constitution, the US constitution amendments/articles, and supreme court decisions if you like as well. Aside from common sense, these will help with further understanding.
The truly free do not have to live an existence that relies so heavily on pride and ambivalence. Those folks who live in places that are enriched with American and colonistic history that existed centuries before the civil war, you should never take that for granted.

[scarmig]

All of which are nothing more than Pieces of Glorified Paper that justify violence to people who simply want to be left alone by the people who refuse to leave them alone.

[ATX Homeboy]

The Union is Perpetual. Once your ancestors decided to become a part of it there was no leaving it. The Civil War or War between the States decided all of that. End of Story.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by ATX Homeboy

The Union is Perpetual. Once your ancestors decided to become a part of it there was no leaving it. The Civil War or War between the States decided all of that. End of Story.

No, not end of story at all. Only as you might see it. Which is fine, but others may have a different take on history so that fact is the true end of story.

As I have said repeatedly (on a thread that seems more an more the province of rants on both sides) I am not a "secessionist" (at least at this point in time). But that our ancestors would have formed a voluntary Union with the prior understanding they could never have gotten out of it under any circumstances would have refuted the primary principle for which they fought (or at least one of them). Which is that government derives its powers from the consent of the governed. That they would have voluntarily given up a right they had just excercised is ridiculous. It would have totally repudiated the Declaration of Independence.

Whether or not secession (which is exactly what the colonial forefathers did...as did the Texians) was/is wise or not is always debatable under the circumstances. But a people who cherish classic freedom always possess the inherent right to alter and/or abolish a government which they feel no longer acts in their interests.

And the "Civil War' did not decide the question forever. Sure, it settled it at least for a time -- by way of might makes right if nothing else. But it did not "decide" it in any perpetual sense. Questions such as this are not those lending to settlement by force or arms nor Supreme Court rulings (of which, there has never been one, anyway).

[ATX Homeboy]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

No, not end of story at all. Only as you might see it. Which is fine, but others may have a different take on history so that fact is the true end of story.

As I have said repeatedly (on a thread that seems more an more the province of rants on both sides) I am not a "secessionist" (at least at this point in time). But that our ancestors would have formed a voluntary Union with the prior understanding they could never have gotten out of it under any circumstances would have refuted the primary principle for which they fought (or at least one of them). Which is that government derives its powers from the consent of the governed. That they would have voluntarily given up a right they had just excercised is ridiculous. It would have totally repudiated the Declaration of Independence.

Whether or not secession (which is exactly what the colonial forefathers did...as did the Texians) was/is wise or not is always debatable under the circumstances. But a people who cherish classic freedom always possess the inherent right to alter and/or abolish a government which they feel no longer acts in their interests.

And the "Civil War' did not decide the question forever. Sure, it settled it at least for a time -- by way of might makes right if nothing else. But it did not "decide" it in any perpetual sense. Questions such as this are not those lending to settlement by force or arms nor Supreme Court rulings (of which, there has never been one, anyway).

I am a Son of the South too. I am also a veteran of my country. History has shown that many of us were duped into fighting wars for rich men's wants. I won't be a part of that again and I wouldn't encourage others to follow that path either. In addition, I would not delve into this Purely Hypothetical Nonsense if it wasn't warranted. The Declaration of Independence is exactly that, just a declaration. It carries no weight in law. Whereas, the constitution was written by representatives from the various states to form a lasting government and thus became a legally binding agreement to support each other not break away whenever things just aren't going our way.
Finally, The Ironclad Oath had to be taken by every southern state in order to rejoin The Union after the war, so yes the war did end all of the "we can still secede or break away if we want argument."

This whole thing is absurd and ridiculous.