Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here's a well thought out article that discusses the whole "Bran & the Night King" theory. The writer thinks Bran actually being the NK is just too much to throw at us with only six episodes left.
He does however throw out his own theory that the NK is a Stark, just not the Bran of our story.
That only worked on Westworld because the story was being told asynchronously, though. GoT is definitely linear.
I understand that the timeline works differently in Westworld. My point was that I wouldn't be surprised if D&D threw in a somewhat similar plot twist notwithstanding the differences in the timelines between the two stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
I don't think there's any reason to treat physical time travel in GoT as a realistic possibility - with only one season left, that'd be a huge mechanic to throw in out of the blue, and there's been no hint of it to date.
Hmm. You don't think there's been a hint of it to date even though Bran warging into Hodor had some effect on the Hodor of past?
I think the future Bran having a clear effect on a young Hodor opened the door to the possibility of time travel, or at least Bran being able to influence the past from the future. I find it hard to believe that what he did to Hodor was a one-off situation never to be attempted again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
Now, it could potentially follow the show's internal magic rules well enough for a future Bran to have warged into a past Night King. He wouldn't be able to keep that up for any length of time, let alone millennia, without his own body dying.
Admittedly, I don't know much about the "internal magical rules" of Westeros, though I think there may be reason to believe that readers don't fully understand the parameters of Westerosi magic. On its face, the idea that Bran can warg into Hodor and in effect change Hodor into a different person many years in the past seems silly and non-sensical. Given our acceptance of that ridiculous proposition, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think that a future Bran somehow warged for too long and became trapped in the NK.
It's possible that we see Bran and the NK as two different people right now because we haven't gotten that far in the story yet. Maybe it's similar to how we think of Hodor as a simpleton for 6 seasons before realizing that Bran made him that way in the cave of the CoTF. Perhaps events we have not seen on camera yet have some impact on the past the same way events we did not see on camera until 6 seasons later had some impact on Hodor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
My question would be, what plot or character purpose would it serve to make Bran the big bad guy? Why would Bran want to turn Westeros into zombieland? It'd be a plot twist just for the twist's sake.
The theory, as I understand it, isn't that Bran becomes the Night King to turn Westeros into a zombieland. I understand the theory to be that mankind loses the Great War and Bran tries to re-write the past through warging, but somehow ends up "melded" into the NK because he fails to heed the Three Eyed Raven's admonition.
To be clear, this isn't my theory, nor is it theory I fully accept as fact. I just find it interesting because there do seem to be some clues in the text and on the show that seem to point that direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
And by that same reasoning Bran could be any person or animal in Westeros, past or present, so why the Night King?
That's a good question. I guess it's because it's a story. I suppose it's the same way Robert's Rebellion makes no sense to me because only a doofus would think Rhaegar "abducted" Lyanna. Robert seems to not be able to see all the red flags saying "Dude, she's just not that into you" after Lyanna basically falls in love with Rhaegar at Harrenhall. A whole entire war is started simply because all the men in Lyanna's life were too dense to realize she had chosen a better man.
At this point in the story, it's probably too late to worry about stupidly contrived plot engines. Jon and Co. going north of the Wall seems to be one such stupidly contrived plot engine since it's only purpose seems to have been to provide the NK a way to get beyond the Wall.
Here's a well thought out article that discusses the whole "Bran & the Night King" theory. The writer thinks Bran actually being the NK is just too much to throw at us with only six episodes left.
He does however throw out his own theory that the NK is a Stark, just not the Bran of our story.
It does seem a lot to unpack in just 6 episodes. The thread discussing the BS = BTB theory can be read here. Like I said, these people are much deeper into the weeds than I care to go.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-01-2017 at 09:50 PM..
So would having Gilly wind up on the Iron Throne, but I don't think that indicates that they are going that way. Your argument appears to be "Since I think it would be cool, then that must be what they are planning." I suspect others will not be persuaded by this approach.
That's not my argument. It's not even my theory. I only said that I found the theory to be a compelling one.
I could see Bran being the NK not only because it would be a "hell of a twist" the same way Gilly winding up on the Iron Throne would be, but also because there are some things in the series that would seem a complete waste if that turns out not to be the case. We know that Bran has these special powers, but do those powers only exist to confirm that Jon Snow is the TPTWP? It seems to be me that GRRM has something much greater planned for Bran beyond conferring with Samwell Tarly about Jon's true origins.
I think this poster may have articulated my sentiment best. I think the ending won't be as straightforward as Dany and Jon burning up the White Walkers (with one likely dying at the end).
Quote:
Grim ironies are always a pointer that GRRM will go in that direction.Some additional reasons why this theory deserves a lot more credence than it seems to be getting:
1. Bittersweet - We now know Jon and Dany are going to hook up and have a baby. That greatly increases the sweetness/schmaltz side of the ledger. But what is the bitterness to balance it out?
Humanity is still going to survive. Jon and Dany's deaths are already priced in, esp since Jon has already died -- that is not enough bitterness, imo.
Given the whole twist with Jon coming back to life, Jon's final death doesn't really add much bitter. True that if Jon and Dany have a great romance and die leaving a son, just like R+L left Jon, that will be bitter.
But it doesn't seem bitter or unexpected enough.
To me, GRRM will want one final sting in the tail, a mega head**** twist greater than Ned dying and greater than the Red Wedding.
2. Cat's paw irony - first, that the valyrian steel dagger intended to kill Jon back in season 1 - which is what commences the story of GOT in leading Ned not to refuse Robert's request for him to be Hand - actually does end up killing Bran (as NK) and ending the story.
3. Bran will Hodor himself - this is possibly the biggest satisfying irony. The full consequences of the Hodor situation have yet to be revealed, especially given how loved Hodor was to GRRM and readers. There must have been a point besides merely darkening Bran's character and showing his power.
What better way than Bran somehow warging back into the flash back where NK is created and becoming him?
4. The Ink is Dry ...
At first sight, the 3ER's comments appear to have been contradicted by Bran disturbing Ned at ToJ and by causing Wyllis to become Hodor.
That is, on the show, it seems that it is an open question whether Bran can change the past (and thus the present and future).
But the only real possible narrative solution to this possibility is to prove that the 3ER was correct to say that the time loop always closes and that the ink is always already dry.
(For one thing - it would simply be impossible either in the show or even the books for multiple futures to be dealt with or played out. As a matter of narrative exigency, the time paradoxes must resolve into a single time loop).
But at the moment Bran (and the audience) doesn't know this and it seems as if the 3ER may have been proved wrong.
BajanYankee, your posts are very detailed, except for the fact that you throw out so many acronyms without any explanation for the rest of us who do not read the same (other) blogs that you read. You are sometimes confusing the rest of us. I realize that some of these are in quotes, such as 3ER, but what for example is TPTWP? Has there been a discussion here about what Bran the Builder(BTB) is all about? CoTF?
Is it time, maybe, for someone to start a new thread, "Game of Thrones, TV versus the Book" so those of us who haven't, and don't plan to, read the book can avoid the clutter?
That's not my argument. It's not even my theory. I only said that I found the theory to be a compelling one.
I could see Bran being the NK not only because it would be a "hell of a twist" the same way Gilly winding up on the Iron Throne would be, but also because there are some things in the series that would seem a complete waste if that turns out not to be the case. We know that Bran has these special powers, but do those powers only exist to confirm that Jon Snow is the TPTWP? It seems to be me that GRRM has something much greater planned for Bran beyond conferring with Samwell Tarly about Jon's true origins.
I think this poster may have articulated my sentiment best. I think the ending won't be as straightforward as Dany and Jon burning up the White Walkers (with one likely dying at the end).
I agree with your basic point. If there isn't a big twist or greater unexpected end then 5 books of pretty decent literature and 7 seasons of well done television are for nothing. A big battle where good defeats bad and life goes back the way it was before the saga started is not enough and I don't think GRR Martin would settle for that. The ending must be worthy of the journey.
That's not my argument. It's not even my theory. I only said that I found the theory to be a compelling one.
I could see Bran being the NK not only because it would be a "hell of a twist" the same way Gilly winding up on the Iron Throne would be, but also because there are some things in the series that would seem a complete waste if that turns out not to be the case. .
But it is your argument, you even repeat it here for us. If it isn't your argument, then why are you arguing on behalf of the theory?
I also keep thinking about Dani's vision in Season 2 of the throne room. It makes me feel like it was now destroyed by the Ice Dragon. So cool if the dead army took out King's Landing and Cersei.
But it is your argument, you even repeat it here for us. If it isn't your argument, then why are you arguing on behalf of the theory?
How is saying "I could see something happening" equal to "what I say is definitely going to happen"? I'm not an advocate here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
