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They do seem to have a facility for retaining very conflicting attributes of God within their minds.
We only have what He gave us in scripture, He didn't bless us with a dream and all that stuff you teach that we have never seen or read in scripture before. Gee, you must be special and all your buddies too!
We only have what He gave us in scripture, He didn't bless us with a dream and all that stuff you teach that we have never seen or read in scripture before. Gee, you must be special and all your buddies too!
Nobody is special, Charlie. We just reject the wrathful God you use to interpret what our ancestors wrote about a wrathful God because that is the only God they knew. They ignore the evidence of Jesus Himself in favor of their beliefs about God. We do not. We see God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness in Jesus on the Cross and use it to reinterpret what our ancestors thought Jesus was teaching them.
They were unable to see negative consequences as anything but the result of the wrath of God, period. So that is how they interpreted the existence of those consequences. In their savagery, they needed extreme consequences to motivate them so they used hyperbolic descriptions.
That's way over God's ability or pay grade, according to JBF and Charlie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
They do seem to have a facility for retaining very conflicting attributes of God within their minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
and ignoring conflicting scripture to boot
God does not save the whole world, while His death would suffice to save the whole world if the whole world were inclined to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour; because, as I have said before, God has given to every man a degree of sovereignty and free will; and therefore He is not going to force everyone in the world to be saved; especially since being saved involves relinquishing your right to exercise your free will in order to commit sin. The only way that God will deal with a person's free will to commit sin is if that person surrenders and relinquishes their right to commit sin by receiving Jesus as the Lord of their life. And God is not going to force this on anyone; while there are definite consequences that He lays out in His word for those who do not receive the remedy for sin that He has set forth in the Cross of Jesus Christ.
So, every man has a choice as to whether he will be saved or not; and love cannot fail to give to every man that choice.
However, love will not violate man's right to make that choice for himself; and therefore if anyone refuses to receive God's remedy for sin in the Cross, the Lord is not going to force them to receive that remedy.
If someone has been deceived into thinking that the grass is greener on the side of the fence where a man is allowed to continue in his sin, then, while God will seek to win that man from the deception that he is in, there are some men who make a concrete decision that they do not ever want to give up their sin. They do not want the "boring-ness" of heaven; they would prefer the excitement that is offered to them by the kingdom of hell.
But I think that it is only right for God to inflict upon those who reject Him a situation where being in the kingdom of hell will not be ultimately exciting but rather fearful and damning.
Nobody is special, Charlie. We just reject the wrathful God you use to interpret what our ancestors wrote about a wrathful God because that is the only God they knew. They ignore the evidence of Jesus Himself in favor of their beliefs about God. We do not. We see God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness in Jesus on the Cross and use it to reinterpret what our ancestors thought Jesus was teaching them.
They were unable to see negative consequences as anything but the result of the wrath of God, period. So that is how they interpreted the existence of those consequences. In their savagery, they needed extreme consequences to motivate them so they used hyperbolic descriptions.
Oh but you are, Mystic! You have been given a gift we don't have, the ability to change the scripture to the way you see fit through a revelation from God!
Us peons only have the scripture to confirm the work of Christ through the Spirit! We have to take it the way it is from God, you don't!
Nobody is special, Charlie. We just reject the wrathful God you use to interpret what our ancestors wrote about a wrathful God because that is the only God they knew. They ignore the evidence of Jesus Himself in favor of their beliefs about God. We do not. We see God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness in Jesus on the Cross and use it to reinterpret what our ancestors thought Jesus was teaching them.
They were unable to see negative consequences as anything but the result of the wrath of God, period. So that is how they interpreted the existence of those consequences. In their savagery, they needed extreme consequences to motivate them so they used hyperbolic descriptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
Oh but you are, Mystic! You have been given a gift we don't have, the ability to change the scripture to the way you see fit through a revelation from God!
Us peons only have the scripture to confirm the work of Christ through the Spirit! We have to take it the way it is from God, you don't!
I am not special, Charlie. Everyone has a clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness by Jesus on the Cross. Only by deliberately ignoring it in favor of our ancestors' misguided beliefs about God are you unable to reinterpret what Jesus was actually communicating to them. Stop refusing to actually think about the scriptures and you can see it too.
God does not save the whole world, while His death would suffice to save the whole world if the whole world were inclined to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour; because, as I have said before, God has given to every man a degree of sovereignty and free will; and therefore He is not going to force everyone in the world to be saved; especially since being saved involves relinquishing your right to exercise your free will in order to commit sin. The only way that God will deal with a person's free will to commit sin is if that person surrenders and relinquishes their right to commit sin by receiving Jesus as the Lord of their life. And God is not going to force this on anyone; while there are definite consequences that He lays out in His word for those who do not receive the remedy for sin that He has set forth in the Cross of Jesus Christ.
So, every man has a choice as to whether he will be saved or not; and love cannot fail to give to every man that choice.
<snip>
Jesus did not OFFER to save us. He DID save us from our imperfections by His perfection in His Human consciousness. Your misguided concept of sin is at the heart of your confusion. Sin is a failure to hit the mark or become the kind of Spirit we are supposed to become. Sin is the result of our physical body's needs and desires driven by our animal nature which has no ability to discern good or evil, just pain and pleasure. It will always avoid pain and seek pleasure, period.
It is our growing and maturing Spirit that has to learn to discriminate between good and evil responses to those needs and desires. Without external guidance, we would always opt to satisfy them indiscriminately (i.e., sin) and fail to become the kind of Spirit God expects us to become. That failure has consequences that God wants us to avoid because He loves us, NOT because it angers His wrath!!! Because He loves us, He will not let our failures result in permanent damage to our Spirit, but all of our evil will need to be purged or refined out of it.
God does not save the whole world, while His death would suffice to save the whole world if the whole world were inclined to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour; because, as I have said before, God has given to every man a degree of sovereignty and free will; and therefore He is not going to force everyone in the world to be saved; especially since being saved involves relinquishing your right to exercise your free will in order to commit sin. The only way that God will deal with a person's free will to commit sin is if that person surrenders and relinquishes their right to commit sin by receiving Jesus as the Lord of their life. And God is not going to force this on anyone; while there are definite consequences that He lays out in His word for those who do not receive the remedy for sin that He has set forth in the Cross of Jesus Christ.
So, every man has a choice as to whether he will be saved or not; and love cannot fail to give to every man that choice.
However, love will not violate man's right to make that choice for himself; and therefore if anyone refuses to receive God's remedy for sin in the Cross, the Lord is not going to force them to receive that remedy.
If someone has been deceived into thinking that the grass is greener on the side of the fence where a man is allowed to continue in his sin, then, while God will seek to win that man from the deception that he is in, there are some men who make a concrete decision that they do not ever want to give up their sin. They do not want the "boring-ness" of heaven; they would prefer the excitement that is offered to them by the kingdom of hell.
But I think that it is only right for God to inflict upon those who reject Him a situation where being in the kingdom of hell will not be ultimately exciting but rather fearful and damning.
You have no idea what you teach JBF.
How can God fail to save the world if that is what He sent Jesus for?
How can sin be eternal when He taketh away the sin of the world?
How can death be eternal when there is to be no more death?
You simply know not what you do.
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They do seem to have a facility for retaining very conflicting attributes of God within their minds.
