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It is all interpreted using that wrathful and vengeful God as their referent, not the agape-loving and forgiving one revealed by Jesus on the Cross.
Jesus didn't exhibit wrath against His enemies because it was His purpose to take the penalty for our sins. God the Father was the One exhibiting the wrath in that instance.
It is all interpreted using that wrathful and vengeful God as their referent, not the agape-loving and forgiving one revealed by Jesus on the Cross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Jesus didn't exhibit wrath against His enemies because it was His purpose to take the penalty for our sins. God the Father was the One exhibiting the wrath in that instance.
There is the unbelievable double-mindedness you seem unable to shake. For Christians, the true Gospel is that Jesus is God in the flesh. If He has no wrath or vengeance in Him, then God does not have it in Him! Your interpretation is called forcing our ancient ancestors' beliefs upon the actual observed situation. To them, God MUST be wrathful and vengeful so that was how they interpreted and rationalized what happened to Jesus.
There is the unbelievable double-mindedness you seem unable to shake. For Christians, the true Gospel is that Jesus is God in the flesh. If He has no wrath or vengeance in Him, then God does not have it in Him! Your interpretation is called forcing our ancient ancestors' beliefs upon the actual observed situation. To them, God MUST be wrathful and vengeful so that was how they interpreted and rationalized what happened to Jesus.
Jesus does have wrath and justice in Him; but at the time of the Cross it was not His place or position to exhibit that wrath to the world around Him.
At that time, He was taking upon Himself the penalty for our sins; as such He was receiving the wrath of the Father on our behalf.
How would it have shown forth the gospel that He was doing this, if He had exhibited wrath towards His enemies? It would have defeated the purpose.
But when Jesus comes back, consider that He will in fact exhibit wrath; at the very least against one person, the Antichrist (see 2 Thessalonians 2:9)...and I believe that he will not be the only one; but that Jesus will exhibit His wrath and judgment against all who reject Him and follow the Antichrist.
At the very least, at the Great White Throne Judgment, those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire; which is the second death.
Will their names be later written therein, after they have been punished in this manner?
They must become worthy through refinement; and then their names will be written therein?
That would at least indicate that those whose names are written therein do not have to go through the same refinement!
I would just encourage the reader, even if they do believe the nonsense about Universalism, to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
At least, then you will know that, if I am right and there is such a thing as ET, that you will not have to experience it since you will have been saved through the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ's blood on the Cross.
There is the unbelievable double-mindedness you seem unable to shake. For Christians, the true Gospel is that Jesus is God in the flesh. If He has no wrath or vengeance in Him, then God does not have it in Him! Your interpretation is called forcing our ancient ancestors' beliefs upon the actual observed situation. To them, God MUST be wrathful and vengeful so that was how they interpreted and rationalized what happened to Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Jesus does have wrath and justice in Him; but at the time of the Cross it was not His place or position to exhibit that wrath to the world around Him.
How could it NOT be His place if He is God in the flesh????
Quote:
At that time, He was taking upon Himself the penalty for our sins; as such He was receiving the wrath of the Father on our behalf.
That you do not see the absurd convolutions and irrationality in this interpretation suggests there is little hope to reach your hardened heart from reading the OT and Moses. You are too deeply embedded in the biblical narrative of a wrathful and vengeful God to be reached. You are the victim of our ancestors' ignorance and rationalizations.
Clearly, you and far too many others are not ready for the "spiritual solid food" presaged by Jesus on the Cross. We are a stubborn and perverse species too easily convinced by our own vanity and hubris. It is extremely sad.
The preaching of the Cross is foolishness (convolutions and irrationality, vanity and hubris) to those who are perishing; but to us who are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18).
For that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God through the foolishness (convolutions and irrationality, vanity and hubris) of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21).
But notice that it saves those who believe...
Those who don't believe will not be saved.
So as long as you continue to believe that the gospel is convolutions and irrationality, vanity and hubris (foolishness), you will stand outside of the realm of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and will not be saved.
Because the only way to be forgiven is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross as a propitiation for our sins (Hebrews 9:22, Romans 3:25).
How could it NOT be His place if He is God in the flesh???? That you do not see the absurd convolutions and irrationality in this interpretation suggests there is little hope to reach your hardened heart from reading the OT and Moses. You are too deeply embedded in the biblical narrative of a wrathful and vengeful God to be reached. You are the victim of our ancestors' ignorance and rationalizations.
Clearly, you and far too many others are not ready for the "spiritual solid food" presaged by Jesus on the Cross. We are a stubborn and perverse species too easily convinced by our own vanity and hubris. It is extremely sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
The preaching of the Cross is foolishness (convolutions and irrationality, vanity and hubris) to those who are perishing; but to us who are saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18).
For that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God through the foolishness (convolutions and irrationality, vanity and hubris) of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21).
Stop pretending that I do not preach Jesus Christ and the Cross as the source of our salvation. I just have a more rational understanding of how and why that does NOT involve barbaric notions of blood sacrifices and a wrathful and vengeful God who eternally punishes us for "Whatever." Your primitive and barbaric beliefs about how and why Jesus saved us on the Cross are definitely foolishness but the TRUTH that Jesus saved us on the Cross is NOT foolishness.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 08-31-2021 at 08:08 PM..
You have an unbiblical view of how Jesus saved us on the Cross.
He died as a propitiation (appeasement of the wrath of God) for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10).
Your problem is you have a biblical view of how Jesus saved us on the Cross and NOT a Christian view based on the revelation of Jesus Christ on the Cross! That would make you a Bibleian, NOT a Christian, IMO. God has no wrath to be appeased. The only wrath PROPITIATED by Jesus on the Cross was our ignorant, savage, and brutal ancestors' wrath and vengeance.
Your problem is you have a biblical view of how Jesus saved us on the Cross and NOT a Christian view based on the revelation of Jesus Christ on the Cross! That would make you a Bibleian, NOT a Christian, IMO. God has no wrath to be appeased. The only wrath PROPITIATED by Jesus on the Cross was our ignorant, savage, and brutal ancestors' wrath and vengeance.
You are attempting to change the definition of what it means to be a Christian.
It is traditionally accepted that a Christian is someone who believes what the Bible says about the faith of Christianity.
It is written of Jesus in the entire volume of the Book (Hebrews 10:7).
Jesus said of the holy scriptures that "these are they which testify of me." (John 5:39-40).
Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of creation (Acts 15:18).
And, you are also in denial of what is taught by the holy scriptures when you say that God has no wrath to be appeased.
Read Nahum 1:2-3; and you will see that you are wrong here.
Of course your response would be to deny that Nahum 1:2-3 is even inspired.
Thus you fall under the judgment of Revelation 22:18-19.
But it's all right; you can deny that that is inspired scripture too!
You are attempting to change the definition of what it means to be a Christian.
It is traditionally accepted that a Christian is someone who believes what the Bible says about the faith of Christianity.
It is written of Jesus in the entire volume of the Book (Hebrews 10:7).
Jesus said of the holy scriptures that "these are they which testify of me." (John 5:39-40).
Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of creation (Acts 15:18).
And, you are also in denial of what is taught by the holy scriptures when you say that God has no wrath to be appeased.
Read Nahum 1:2-3; and you will see that you are wrong here.
Of course your response would be to deny that Nahum 1:2-3 is even inspired.
Thus you fall under the judgment of Revelation 22:18-19.
But it's all right; you can deny that that is inspired scripture too!
A Christian SHOULD be defined as someone who follows Christ, NOT a book! The fact that they have followed a book instead of Christ for millennia is no excuse to continue doing so. The truth is in the book, but it must be interpreted using God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ on the Cross. Your refusal to do so deliberately retains the corruptions created by our ancestors' failure to do so! God will not be pleased.
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